Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
slirak
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by slirak » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:21 am

starving student wrote:don't believe it when you hear that macs are designed from the ground up with the operating system
remember they have intel inside and the same people that make macbooks make PCs
Well, not quite true. The components are more or less standard PC components. And I'm sure Macs are assembled in the same sweatshops as PC's.

But Apple decides what components goes into the Macs. Microsoft don't decide what components goes into PC's. That obviously gives Apple a tremendous advantage when it comes to making sure that the OS will work nicely with the hardware. (I'm not saying that Macs with OS X necessarily are more stable than Windows PC's, just that it's less of a lottery wether the model you get will be stable.)

Also, Akshara's initial points still hold true. There are technical differences. Macs have their own file system. And AFAIK, no PC use that particular multi-touch trackpad. And perhaps most importantly, Macs don't use BIOS, they use EFI. This affects things like how the OS accesses the Mac's hardware and how it manages power. Also, the keyboard layout is slightly different. That may sound like a small thing, but to me (who use Windows on Macs all the time), it's a daily annoyance.

I'm not saying you can't successfully run Windows on a Mac, you certainly can! But OS X is made to work specifically in this hard- and low level software environment, Windows isn't. And that's one of the main advantages of Macs - an advantage you won't get by running Windows on it.

So to answer the op's question "are the advantages of a Mac in comparison to a PC still there when I use Windows on the Mac": not really.
L8.1.4 Suite, MBP Unibody 2.4 GHZ 4GB OS X 10.6.4, Apogee One, Akai LPK25, Novation Nocturn, Korg Legacy w/MS20i controller, ComboSister, Moog Modular V, Oddity, Amplitube, T-Racks, CSR, Roland TD-12, guitars and basses and whatever...

naph
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by naph » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:10 pm

don't forget that 95% of the VST you have on windows, will work on MAC, and the same ableton project will just run fine provided you have the osx counterpart of the original windows project.

i was pretty impressed some months ago when i got my very first macbook pro seeing that ableton could actually open and run perfectly a lot of projects created on win featuring a huge number of vsts.

and don't forget that when it comes to audio and midi, osx really have some advantage like:
- the ability to hotplug midi devices without having to reboot live (sounds like a minor thing, but try reconnecting a usb controller in the middle of a gig)
- midi over ethernet
- coreaudio (which unlike asio is perfectly integrated with the OS)
- i'm sure there are other good points i'm missing right now

friend_kami
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by friend_kami » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:34 pm

if youre getting a mac, then there is no reason whatsoever to not run osx.
a mac without osx is like a car without wheels. its still a car, but its just not as great as it used to be.

also, you can easily get a pc laptop with better specs then a macbook pro for less money, so thats another thing to consider.
if you wanted to switch the tables, you could always get a pc laptop, install retail osx using iboot, and have a perfectly retail osx installation on your pc laptop.
but yeah, there is really no reason at all to buy a macbook if youre not planning to run osx on it, except maybe to score some extra points with the hipsters.

Manestra
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by Manestra » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:57 pm

Hmm, as it seems some of you made already the switch from PC to Mac.

What about changing Live from a PC to a MAC version? Is it easy to get a Mac-version of Live - or does Ableton helps you on that in any way - or do you have to pay another hundred bucks to get a new mac version or just download a driver for mac or something like that?

Same for bought VSTs (especially from NI) on a PC version.

How do you handled that in the real life?
As the main reason for using than windows on a mac is that I don't want to invest again the same money for something I already bought and payed already. I prefre to invest this money into something new to play around :-)

3dot...
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by 3dot... » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:02 pm

both Ableton and NI let you download both..
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mbenigni
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by mbenigni » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:19 pm

Just curious, as I've considered "recommissioning" my wife's MacBook Pro a couple of times: Are there any hangups on account of the Mac keyboard layout, e.g. backspace vs. delete key etc, when running Windows and Windows apps on the Mac hardware?

naph
Posts: 257
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by naph » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:25 pm

Manestra wrote:Hmm, as it seems some of you made already the switch from PC to Mac.

What about changing Live from a PC to a MAC version?
it's just as simple as downloading a new setup from the website.
i was also able to use my previous live8 library on the new machine with no problems (actually i got it synched by a script between my desktop pc and my macbook pro)
Manestra wrote: Same for bought VSTs (especially from NI) on a PC version.
just make sure all the vst you have paid money for offer an OSX version, and you should very likely be able to download the osx installer at no charge. About NI, i'm sure you won't have problems

Actually i can tell you i'working on the same Ableton projects on my studio desktop (windows 7) and on my macbook, going back and forth with no problems.

Right now i'm planning to try the osx86 route on the desktop pc since osx got me really hooked, and would really love to use Logic on my studio pc :)

Tarekith
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by Tarekith » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:42 pm

mbenigni wrote:Just curious, as I've considered "recommissioning" my wife's MacBook Pro a couple of times: Are there any hangups on account of the Mac keyboard layout, e.g. backspace vs. delete key etc, when running Windows and Windows apps on the Mac hardware?

It's weird at first sure, having to use Fn+Delete as a backspace threw me the most at first, but in time you get used to it. Now I'm the opposite, put me on a windows based keyboard and it feels weird. Some people have no issue bouncing back and forth though, my wife uses OSX at home and Windows at work and and can switch easily.

Piplodocus
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by Piplodocus » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:48 pm

It's a bit old now but: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/fast ... k-pro/1011

Basically a Mac is a fantastic top of the range PC. Maybe you pay a bit extra for it, and it loses some of it's advantages by running windows full time on it, but it's not gonna run Win7 slower than a PC for any reason via bootcamp.

I'd spec out a same spec PC, with similar everything (nice display, decent trackpad if you can find one, etc), check the price difference (which I found isn't that much looking at similar spec 17" laptops from Dell/Alienware/etc), then decide if you think it's worth the extra. I'd buy one, but then I'm not you, and I'd mostly be running OSX.

I work on the principle that I'll use the thing for hours EVERYDAY, and probably even take it on holiday with me since it's also my main computer. A couple of hundred quid more on a computer is like 18p a day which I figure is worth it!

P.S. Yep Live runs VSTs on the mac, and if you paid for a plugin it often comes with both mac & PC vsts, so it might be worth checking what you've got, and check with their technical support if necessary...

P.P.S. As you can tell from my sig I've got a Hackintosh (which sounds like a small vacuum cleaner and is sometimes a bit glitchy although I use it live!), but I got the despatch thing from apple for my new 17" MBP today, and my wife has a MBP too I've used a lot.
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starving student
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by starving student » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:18 pm

on second thought fudge it, get an Mpc

Akshara
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by Akshara » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:54 pm

In my initial unedited response, I tried to illustrate an important point, which I will attempt to clarify again for those who come across this thread later.

Apple Macintosh is more than just a unique hardware design or operating system - it is also a lifestyle. Apple are masters at designing and marketing this lifestyle to be appealing and exciting, and make it easy for new users to install and run Windows for a reason. The lifelong Windows user who believes that they will purchase a Mac, install Windows and then somehow avoid the Apple Experience is not seeing the whole picture. This is the number one thing that the Windows user contemplating a Mac doesn't fully understand, because there is nothing like it in the Windows world, and so it gets dismissed or underestimated.
Last edited by Akshara on Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

momo182
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Re: Mac just as good as any other PC when run windows 7 on it ?

Post by momo182 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:16 pm

Basically Mac is really an overpriced high end PC with an EFI system instead of BIOS, so Windows will run
just the same as it wold on a PC with the same hardware specs.
Days of good hardware ended when apple switched from PowerPC to Intel chips.
If you need windows then stick to PC vendors.
Mac OS X is the real beauty of Macs, not hardware.

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