Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
phazed
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by phazed » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:09 pm

Maybe the situation would become a little more unstressed if one gets additional unlocks automatically after some period of time. As it is expected that users upgrade their machines from time to time an extra unlock each x months would solve some of the manual requests.

Digital_Damage
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Digital_Damage » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:15 pm

jbone1313 wrote:I hate the Ableton unlock system. I much prefer iLok. Yes iLok has it's flaws, but it rules not having to beg everytime you need to make system changes. AudioEase allows iLok or CR, which I think pleases everyone. But a hassle-free, self-serve system tied to machine IDs would be good too.
ohh god I hate iLok, worst system evar!

jbone1313
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by jbone1313 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:19 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:
jbone1313 wrote:I hate the Ableton unlock system. I much prefer iLok. Yes iLok has it's flaws, but it rules not having to beg everytime you need to make system changes. AudioEase allows iLok or CR, which I think pleases everyone. But a hassle-free, self-serve system tied to machine IDs would be good too.
ohh god I hate iLok, worst system evar!
Why? It works great for me. Please enlighten me.

andydes
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by andydes » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:13 pm

Might be a translation thing, but the message you get when you use the last authorisation does make it sound like they are doing you a favour. As paying customers, you shouldn’t have to ask for more unlocks and certainly not explain yourself unless they have good reason to believe you are abusing the system.

No doubt they keep a record of how often you authorise. They already have a system that will email you when you are on the last authorisation. Should be easy for them to set a threshold of unlocks over a given time where you are automatically reset.

I recently installed on a new laptop and was told I was on the last one and should contact support stating my reasons if I need more. That’s 5 unlocks since Live 4. Should I really need to give them an explanation?

As for Offline unlocking, which I use for the desktop, but not laptop. I think it uses exactly the same code system as the online system, but just allows you to transfer the code manually. Only had to re authorise once from an OS reinstall. That was offline and I think it used up an authorisation code (only from counting my installs - 2 old computers, 2 new computers and one OS reinstall makes 5 which is the last one, right?).

Authorisations have continued through upgrades, whole number and point. You don’t lose any reinstalling the program, but you don’t gain any with paid upgrades either. Just mention this as it might not be obvious to those of you upgrading their machines regularly. It’s easy to keep track of where my unlocks have gone.

djsynchro
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by djsynchro » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:52 am

I bought Reaper, which royally kicks Live's butt where it comes to editing sound to picture (nudging clips on the timeline with custom keyboard commands - hello).
Reaper has a nag screen, but no copyright protection, in Justin's words: I am a user myself, and it struck me that people who paid for the software get a worse user experience than people who got a crack. So there are no cracked copies of Reaper. Although there must be people who used it that didn't like..... every other app ever made and to be made for ever and ever, Amen.

Khazul
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Re: Ableton's Authorisation system - Online V Offline

Post by Khazul » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:43 am

dum wrote:There's been several threads created about the issue throughout the years, ranging from general annoyance to seething rage. Some guy even advertised his licenses for sale here, after ranting about it on the board.
Might have been me as I remember having a major rant about this once, but the licenses I was selling after werent the ones I was still using (as I have two suite licenses and now only need the one).

But yes - I can remember being very pissed off trying to rebuild a machine and then some driver failure that hosed windows meant a reinstall and when doing that for two OS meant I ran out of unlock and was stuck until ableton got around to responding. Naturally this happened on a friday I think, so ended up waiting. Wasnt at all happy.
Nothing to see here - move along!

photonal
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by photonal » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:45 am

The auth system is fine for me - used both offline + online, and getting a new reg when limit has been reached was always just a matter of explaining the situation to get it increased.

btw, *the worst* auth system must be for ReCycle - it asks for the original CD *very* often when starting it up, which can be a total PITA if they're not handy; one *reason* why I didn't get into Reason!

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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:21 pm

jbone1313 wrote:
Digital_Damage wrote:
jbone1313 wrote:I hate the Ableton unlock system. I much prefer iLok. Yes iLok has it's flaws, but it rules not having to beg everytime you need to make system changes. AudioEase allows iLok or CR, which I think pleases everyone. But a hassle-free, self-serve system tied to machine IDs would be good too.
ohh god I hate iLok, worst system evar!
Why? It works great for me. Please enlighten me.

it eats up an usb port? can be stolen and lost ? as any dongle based syytem ist absolutly shit for stage use..

I dont see a point in critizising abletons authorisation system.. its pretty cool and their handling regarding the registrations is relaxed.
Only thing i hate is that the demo mode is safe disabled because thats what you need in emergency cases-
a more wise cheme like 3 safes on one computer would be very helpfull and nobody buys theire single plugs anyway.. they should stop that stupidity and concentrate in selling suite., what will never happen with me when i cant test it with the ability to safe..

producers rule No.28

never touch safe disabled demos..never !!
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Ableton_David
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Ableton_David » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:24 pm

3phase wrote:it eats up an usb port? can be stolen and lost ? as any dongle based syytem ist absolutly shit for stage use..

I dont see a point in critizising abletons authorisation system.. its pretty cool and their handling regarding the registrations is relaxed.
Only thing i hate is that the demo mode is safe disabled because thats what you need in emergency cases-
a more wise cheme like 3 safes on one computer would be very helpfull and nobody buys theire single plugs anyway.. they should stop that stupidity and concentrate in selling suite., what will never happen with me when i cant test it with the ability to safe..

producers rule No.28

never touch safe disabled demos..never !!
If you're interested in trying out the free 30-day trial of Suite 8 (which works just like a paid Suite license, with saving enabled), we've recently reset the trial for all users: http://www.ableton.com/free-trial

3phase
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:51 pm

David Abravanel wrote: If you're interested in trying out the free 30-day trial of Suite 8 (which works just like a paid Suite license, with saving enabled), we've recently reset the trial for all users: http://www.ableton.com/free-trial
ah..finaly.. was a bit taking the piss that any newby could play around with suite but not the longtime users.
i once tried it. but it was over after one day.. maybe sitting 30 days on my harddrive..
So its not 30 days usage time..
personally would prefer just 3 times safe limit..when i reach 3 times the state i want to safe something i need it.. otherwise..why bother...

safe disabled demos are a crime on software you do your own creative things with.. Its not like a computer game where you just loose the level played.. you loose content that maybe wont come back on a second try. Especially because when trying new tools you often get new ideas.. and while beeing soo positive about that tool..you loose that piece you just did with it. how is your mood regarding that software than? positive?
Its contraproductive for booth sides to safe disable demos. a loose loose situation,.therefore..

never try safe disabled demos. never !!

and for software companys into music software the rule is..

never do safe disabled demos. never !!

Beside the bad image factor that ruins the user experiance on the demo it´s actually a moral legitimation for hackers.
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Poster
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Poster » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:11 pm

djsynchro wrote:Reaper has a nag screen, but no copyright protection, in Justin's words: I am a user myself, and it struck me that people who paid for the software get a worse user experience than people who got a crack. So there are no cracked copies of Reaper. Although there must be people who used it that didn't like..... every other app ever made and to be made for ever and ever, Amen.
rrright.. Reaper only costs 40,- or 150,-.. imo that's the real reason is has no protection because people are likely willing to pay for it..

UncleAge
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by UncleAge » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:35 pm

3phase wrote:Especially because when trying new tools you often get new ideas.. and while beeing soo positive about that tool..you loose that piece you just did with it. how is your mood regarding that software than? positive?
I'm not going to argue your overall point as it is an opinion. And everyone is entitled to their own. But there is another perspective to the statement I selected above. And it's a simple one. This practice of letting a potential customer have possession of something and then seemingly take it away from them is called a puppy dog close (in other markets).

For instance: It used to be very common here in the states for a car dealer to give a customer a car to take home overnight if the customer was on the fence about buying it. When the customer would return the next day the salesman were trained to take the keys away from the customer as soon as they approached them. Of course the customer would feel as though something had been taken from them and would want it back. This tactic works. And it is one of the best, if not the best, close tactics you can use.

It's fair enough to say that this may not work on you. But I'll bet the majority of users overwhelming emotion, after creating something they really liked and wanting to be able to save that something, would be "I have to have this". Once again, it may not work on you, but I'd bet it works on most folks. And if it's effective then why not use it?

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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:00 pm

UncleAge wrote:
3phase wrote:Especially because when trying new tools you often get new ideas.. and while beeing soo positive about that tool..you loose that piece you just did with it. how is your mood regarding that software than? positive?
I'm not going to argue your overall point as it is an opinion. And everyone is entitled to their own. But there is another perspective to the statement I selected above. And it's a simple one. This practice of letting a potential customer have possession of something and then seemingly take it away from them is called a puppy dog close (in other markets).

For instance: It used to be very common here in the states for a car dealer to give a customer a car to take home overnight if the customer was on the fence about buying it. When the customer would return the next day the salesman were trained to take the keys away from the customer as soon as they approached them. Of course the customer would feel as though something had been taken from them and would want it back. This tactic works. And it is one of the best, if not the best, close tactics you can use.

It's fair enough to say that this may not work on you. But I'll bet the majority of users overwhelming emotion, after creating something they really liked and wanting to be able to save that something, would be "I have to have this". Once again, it may not work on you, but I'd bet it works on most folks. And if it's effective then why not use it?

you forget that it is not about cars and not about the software in question its about the result of the creativ work you do on the testdrive, that gets stolen from you by the safe disability..so you cant go back to that piece after youbought the software.. so you probably wont buy the software in question after such an experiamce and probably no other product from that software company.
Who buys from thieves or guys that intentionally damage your work?
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Poster » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:08 pm

3phase wrote:Who buys from thieves or guys that intentionally damage your work?
:lol:

UncleAge
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by UncleAge » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:22 pm

@3phase:
This a bit of false argument you are presenting. At the point that a potential customer is using the software in demo mode they have not aquired a license. That demo period can be restricted to allowing the user to try out the functionality of the software. Thus my analogy to the car sales. You have not paid for the product thus you have limited rights as to the extent to which you may use the product.

Next, the idea of theft is laughable. Even if you place fleeting inspiration on a higher level than anything else you can't support an argument for theft. You knew before you started that you would have to record you efforts separately if you needed to keep them for later use. In addition, if the perception of this "opus" is so strong that you cannot live without it then surely a few screen shots would allow you to at least re-create what was there. And if nothing else your assertions provide one the strongest arguments for their approach. You may not see it that way. But that's ok too.

[edited a few times for grammatical errors]

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