Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
dazzer
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dazzer » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:12 am

Yeah, I can see how the system sucks.

However, what I did when I was emailed to tell me that I had run out of unlocks was write to them before I needed the future unlocks to get them set up, so that means (I guess) that I'm not gonna run out and be left in the lurch.

(hobbyist here)

dum
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dum » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:18 am

slicedbread wrote:this just bit me this week. luckily it was during the week and customer service "granted" me 2 additional unlocks the next day. if it happened on a weekend i had planned to make music i'd be a bit more pissed.

i am however upset that i am at the whim and mercy of the company to install software i purchased. what happens if (heaven forbid) the company goes under? or gets bought by another company who dissolves this product line? or i decide to move to a cave and make beats off the grid?

tying the unlocks to hardware would be better, but still you'd have the same problems. i've upgraded my main pc 3 times in the last year and a half. my music machines are constantly being modded and wiped/reinstalled to trim the fat.

i also understand they have to do something to protect their ip. i just wish it was something that allowed me to install my software without waiting for their intervention and good will to "grant" me an install. maybe an automated number to call to get a unique challenge/response unlock code.

I'm noticing a distinct pattern here.

People who have experienced this, agree.

Even with hardware related unlocks, we will find ourselves in the position where we're begging for another unlock - sure. My point in that regard is they will be less frequent.

Besides that, the german business hours + weekends off situation is a piss-poor one when it comes to needing an unlock. At the very, very least we should be able to beg for an unlock 7 days a week, 12 hours a day - minimum. And those requests should be handled promptly.

Not replying ? at all ? for an entire business day ? and longer ? ... weak.

And yes, I also take issue with how they word issuing another unlock as making an 'exception'... like they're doing you a favour :roll:
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

dum
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dum » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:20 am

dazzer wrote:Yeah, I can see how the system sucks.

However, what I did when I was emailed to tell me that I had run out of unlocks was write to them before I needed the future unlocks to get them set up, so that means (I guess) that I'm not gonna run out and be left in the lurch.

(hobbyist here)
I like you,
and ya, given the current system as it stands... begging in advance is a good idea and I will do just that.

Cheers
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

dum
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dum » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:31 am

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

Machinesworking
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:38 am

dum wrote: You're implying I'm making comments for the sake of arguing now ? Just because I called you out for making a tedious, inane comment regarding motherboards ? Motherboards needing replacement is the least frequent maintenance scenario Period.
Who fucking cares if it's the least frequent maintenance scenario, it's not the least frequent reason authorizations fail, that would be system corruption, but again, you won't go into detail about how that happened to you...
You want to start insinuating user error if my authorisation corrupted ?

Not at all, I don't doubt that you can maintain your computer. Curious as to why/how it happened though.
The same insinuation can be made about your logic boards, learn to look after your laptops dipshit.
Retarded childish comment, normally I don't bother replying when you froth, but that's stupid on too many levels. Good job.
You're quite aware I know how to take care of my laptops, you're reaching.
Leave the discussion, you've deposited your nuggets of wisdom. at this stage even tone deft is less of a douche.
Good luck with that sort of grandiose proclamations on the interwebs, I'm sure it'll serve you well. Especially on a relatively unmoderated public forum.
Seriously who the fuck cares if you think I'm a douche? Generally I think you're a pretty bright character, but if there was one thing about you that could use some work it's your retardedly explosive temper, calm the fuck down, not everyone is out to get you. What sets you off isn't even rational half the time, so why would I care?
Pussy move to agree with another user about getting advance unlocks when he's just repeating what I stated earlier. :roll:

For the record, no, I don't think Ableton's Authorization scheme is the worst, not the best, not the worst, and no, I'm not a huge fan of logic board authorizations for the reasons I mentioned. Getting mad at people trolling your thread is one thing, getting violently upset at people who don't agree with you is childish.

dazzer
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dazzer » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:14 am

Machinesworking wrote: Pussy move to agree with another user about getting advance unlocks when he's just repeating what I stated earlier. :roll:
"Repeating" implies that I read what you wrote, which I didn't, sorry 'bout that.

mihai
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by mihai » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:12 am

dum is also dazzer. did not know that.

rikki
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by rikki » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:58 am

I have never had a problem with either on or offline authorisation. I work at a college and have over 20 machines and auth codes to deal with. Unlocking has never been a problem, I have found it to be swift and effective. As for my personal account I have also had no problems and have found (as stated) the process to be more than generous concidering how often I upgraded my computer/laptop in the past few years.

As for out of work hours, I can understand this can be an inconvenience. It has however not stopped me gigging/teaching/etc as there are always demo copies to fall back on if this problem arises (the fully functioning demo has saved my skin a few times at gigs)

recap - works for me

/rik
'the truly wise man does not play leapfrog with the unicorn'

crumhorn
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by crumhorn » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:16 am

The Only problem with Lives authorization is the inability to get a new unlock during evening and weekends. Surely this is something they could give priority too.

Any system would be broken if the file where it stores it's authorization codes gets corrupted. If Live trashes it's own file then that is a bug and needs reporting as such.

Try a Synthogy plugin sometime. I need 3 different unlock codes depending on what combination of wired and wireless networking I have enabled. Now that is crap.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

dum
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dum » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:58 am

rikki wrote:I have never had a problem with either on or offline authorisation. I work at a college and have over 20 machines and auth codes to deal with. Unlocking has never been a problem, I have found it to be swift and effective. As for my personal account I have also had no problems and have found (as stated) the process to be more than generous concidering how often I upgraded my computer/laptop in the past few years.

As for out of work hours, I can understand this can be an inconvenience. It has however not stopped me gigging/teaching/etc as there are always demo copies to fall back on if this problem arises (the fully functioning demo has saved my skin a few times at gigs)

recap - works for me

/rik
if you've used offline authorisation, like me, maybe you can shed some light on whether the offline challenge code is the same after, say, re-installing an OS or changing a HDD

Unlocking isn't a problem when you've got unlocks to use, never claimed otherwise. The unlocks are wasted too easily though, and their manual request system leaves alot to be desired. You said as much, but it's much more than an inconvenience - that's a very favourable way of putting it.

I see you define generosity as giving you unlocks for new machines as you upgrade them. Sure, unlocks for new machines is grand. But their system can burn through unlocks unnecessarily on the same machine. There is a much better method out there. (motherboard)

I know about demo mode, that's fine for gigging with an existing set. Surely you realise there are production scenarios that running in demo mode won't help.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

dum
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dum » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:09 am

crumhorn wrote:The Only problem with Lives authorization is the inability to get a new unlock during evening and weekends. Surely this is something they could give priority too.

Any system would be broken if the file where it stores it's authorization codes gets corrupted. If Live trashes it's own file then that is a bug and needs reporting as such.

Try a Synthogy plugin sometime. I need 3 different unlock codes depending on what combination of wired and wireless networking I have enabled. Now that is crap.

As you can see in the thread, there's a spat of arbitrary shit-talking going on, but anyone who is capable of actually reading what I'm saying about the auth system will know that I think their system is shit for two simple reasons:

The first one, I highlighted in your quote, and everyone taking the topic seriously seems to agree on that. The second is simply that the unlocks are too flimsy and easy to waste doing the most basic type of computer maintenance work. However, you say any system can break through system file corruption - true enough - but if the systems that generate challenge codes based on the motherboard are deauthorised through OS maintenance etc, it's as simple as re-entering the response code you first used. Saved in a text file, and/or your email account.

And yes, bugs have been reported. but no replies, and of course it being 7.0.18 no one is likely to care. The same bug was reported back in the live 7 beta stages, by the way.

Cheers
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

Amaury
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Amaury » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:19 am

Hello,

I just want to make some facts straight.

- If your unlock file gets corrupt, deleted, or whatever, you can re-authorize without needing to "burn" another unlock, because yes, the unlock information is dependent on the hardware. It's not like you can authorize two time, it like, you can authorize on two different machines, or systems (two OS on the same computer is the same as two computers). Try it if you worry: rename your current unlock.cfg file, temporarily, start Live, unlock. You can repeat that as much as you want without needing more unlocks.

- If you use your last unlock, you should be informed immediately, hopefully giving you plenty of time to request more, before you need more.

The system is not perfect, no, but probably not as bad as described here. In the end you only can judge how good or bad it is, and we only can improve it. Therefore, your input is very welcome, even when phrased harshly. Apart from the "week-end problem", which hopefully is lessened by the fact you're informed you should write to CCT while you use your last unlock, I'd like to understand what are your concerns.

Now, may I suggest taking the personal fights out of this place? It makes it a bit counter productive for us to understand the problems, and there are better places all over the internet for personal matters.

Kind regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team

dum
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dum » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:38 am

Amaury wrote:Hello,

I just want to make some facts straight.

- If your unlock file gets corrupt, deleted, or whatever, you can re-authorize without needing to "burn" another unlock, because yes, the unlock information is dependent on the hardware. It's not like you can authorize two time, it like, you can authorize on two different machines, or systems (two OS on the same computer is the same as two computers). Try it if you worry: rename your current unlock.cfg file, temporarily, start Live, unlock. You can repeat that as much as you want without needing more unlocks.
I beg to differ.
If that is how it is in theory, that is certainly not how it is in practise. Temporarily moving/renaming your unlock.cfg might be a nice parlour trick but there is evidently more to your auth system than that file. Perhaps hardware is simply ONE variable you use ?
Taking you at your word I can only conclude your auth system has bugs, at least with Live7.

My bug report to that effect has had no reply for a week now. But then again, as [nis] said, live 7.0.18 issues aren't likely to be addressed.

Amaury wrote: - If you use your last unlock, you should be informed immediately, hopefully giving you plenty of time to request more, before you need more.

The system is not perfect, no, but probably not as bad as described here. In the end you only can judge how good or bad it is, and we only can improve it. Therefore, your input is very welcome, even when phrased harshly. Apart from the "week-end problem", which hopefully is lessened by the fact you're informed you should write to CCT while you use your last unlock, I'd like to understand what are your concerns.

Now, may I suggest taking the personal fights out of this place? It makes it a bit counter productive for us to understand the problems, and there are better places all over the internet for personal matters.

Kind regards,
Amaury
Yep, I know to beg in advance now. A good tip dispensed by those who didn't join the thread to troll. As for personal fights, agreed. Tone Deft & Shelluser et al should take heed.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

dum
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Re: Ableton's Authorisation system - Online V Offline

Post by dum » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:40 am

mihai wrote:i'm on v. 7 and i've gone through hdd and os changes on the same computer and never an issue, once it authorized it authorized. of course i've had to authorize after each change but only once and i have done so online.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

dum
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dum » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:49 am

dum wrote:My bug report to that effect has had no reply for a week now.
proving that bitching on the forum is the way to be taken seriously.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

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