Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
dbfs
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dbfs » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:27 am

Gotta love the software business. Its the only business where you buy a product and then you have to "check in" with the baby sitter to keep using it..

I never understood the 3 unlocks thing... And then having to e-mail and explain yourself about a 500 dollar + 100-200 updates for the last 4 years purchase like your some kind thief, just because you want to install the software again. And then not even using the hardware ID so that I can reinstall the program on the same computer as many god damn times as I want. Why? Why on earth would you do it this way?? This has bugged me for YEARS!! It creates more bullshit for you having to answer e-mails about unlocks, and just burdens the customer who makes you who you are. Studio One has a great system. You unlock a computer once.. You can reinstall and activate it as many times as you want because its just a license file you download. They give you 5 computers to install it on.. Why can't you do the same? Whats the difference? Why make the customer jump through hoops to use the software they paid for?

I'm a grown man, and having to ask to get more "access" to something I paid for already is an infuriating feeling.. I can't think of any other product where I have had to ask to use it after I paid for it.. The Software business... And they wonder why people use cracks.. This is exactly why.. 8O

Piplodocus
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Piplodocus » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:18 am

Personally can't see what the fuss is about. It works for me and the Abes seem fine to give more unlocks if you use them up. I've put it on my old PC (now scrapped), my current PC, my work laptop (which was crap but meant I could mess around and experiment with simple parts while on business - not good enough to run any of my projects though), another old laptop that was too crap to do anything with, and most recently my wifes macbook. I've currently got a new MBP in the post supposed to arrive next thursday/friday. Is the end of the world nigh? No I'll probably just email them next week and check I have a spare unlock on hand so I can install over the weekend.

If I hadn't checked I had a spare unlock and the unlikely event that my computer gets corrupted (which shouldn't be happening regularly at weekends or you've got issues!) I'd only be in the same boat as if any bit of my hardware went down at the weekend. Or I'd get organised, check with the Abe's that I've got a spare unlock, and have it going again within minutes. I can't see any way Ableton can make it easier without selling dongles whereupon you probably need a new one when you update, can lose it, it's a PITA on stage etc. The thing even works and runs full sets in demo mode as long as you don't want to save!

What's the proposed alternative? I might change my opinion if you can give me a better one, but currently don't know of one I'd prefer...
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Mac OSX: 10.8.2, Live Suite: 9.0.2 (64-bit) Live user since:v5 (Above now has an APC40, 8GB RAM and a Diezel 212F Cab but currently too lazy to re-draw it all)

twisted-space
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by twisted-space » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:35 pm

Hobbyist alert

Been using Live since version 5.

I wouldn't exactly call Abletons system unprofessional and I've always been given an extra unlock when requested (eventually). I do however think that:

1. Someone should be available to respond to unlock requests outside normal business hours.

2.The email response when granting unlocks should be less accusational.

Ableton should realise that people requesting additional unlocks HAVE ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE SOFTWARE. Those that want to install it on all their mates machines are most likely going to use a crack.

I think the current system is very typically Ableton, it works most of the time and it's better than some of the alternatives, but it's poorly thought out and annoying enough to piss me off while not so annoying as to make me look elsewhere (yet).
Last edited by twisted-space on Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

twisted-space
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by twisted-space » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:47 pm

Piplodocus wrote:What's the proposed alternative? I might change my opinion if you can give me a better one, but currently don't know of one I'd prefer...

How about a serial no. like Cakewalk uses, or maybe a keyfile like the D16 plugins use. Or an unlock code like Reaper or Fabfilter use, there are lots of alternatives.

The thing is that none of the current systems (including dongles) prevent piracy, but there are lot's of developers that seem to do ok with quite simple copy protection methods that don't make their customers jump through hoops to use what they have paid for.

jbone1313
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by jbone1313 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:54 pm

I hate the Ableton unlock system. I much prefer iLok. Yes iLok has it's flaws, but it rules not having to beg everytime you need to make system changes. AudioEase allows iLok or CR, which I think pleases everyone. But a hassle-free, self-serve system tied to machine IDs would be good too.

Trent
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Trent » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:11 pm

So the moral of the story is contact Ableton in advance for unlocks...But has any one figured out how Ableton generates the authorization id?

slicedbread
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by slicedbread » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:25 pm

this reminds me a bit of the gun control debate in the states... good intentions, but ineffective in practice.

the only people who you are affecting and inconveniencing are those who follow the law (legit buyers). people who use cracks won't need to authorize the software.

if the goal is to thwart the casual legit buyer from installing on his buddy's computer, then how about you treat the vast majority of (legit, law-abiding) customers like adults, allowing us to install on our machines and track how many times we do it, but don't stop me from doing it and make me wait for you to grant me an exception. if i decide to reformat my drive every other week, i should have that right to do so. no other software i run barks at me when i do.

if in your judgement i have too many installs under my belt, then call me. write me a letter letting me know you are watching me. this alone will scare the crap out of someone who is sharing his license with friends.

...in other words, why can't we be more optimistic and assume the people who bought your software are not criminals?

Jarvisimon
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Jarvisimon » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:09 pm

I love Ableton's unlock system. I'm really glad they haven't gone the route of the dreaded dongle as that would make me think about getting a bootleg.

I can understand the Props using dongles for Record (so far unbootlegged) but once the hackers spend some proper time on it, this too will be available for download from a million Torrent sites.

Some people seem to have experienced Ableton accusations re new unlocks but this has never happened to me. I must admit, I don't fiddle with my computer a huge amount once it's up and running and people who do should expect their nerdish habits to create a few hassles but if they have a computer set aside solely for the purpose of making music, then I don't see why they should run into problems as often as they do.

H20nly
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by H20nly » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:28 am

+ 1 for working weekends...

Business hours can stay the same.

Real Pros have a back up plan.


A gift for the OP:

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LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

phazed
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by phazed » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:09 pm

Maybe the situation would become a little more unstressed if one gets additional unlocks automatically after some period of time. As it is expected that users upgrade their machines from time to time an extra unlock each x months would solve some of the manual requests.

Digital_Damage
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Digital_Damage » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:15 pm

jbone1313 wrote:I hate the Ableton unlock system. I much prefer iLok. Yes iLok has it's flaws, but it rules not having to beg everytime you need to make system changes. AudioEase allows iLok or CR, which I think pleases everyone. But a hassle-free, self-serve system tied to machine IDs would be good too.
ohh god I hate iLok, worst system evar!

jbone1313
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by jbone1313 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:19 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:
jbone1313 wrote:I hate the Ableton unlock system. I much prefer iLok. Yes iLok has it's flaws, but it rules not having to beg everytime you need to make system changes. AudioEase allows iLok or CR, which I think pleases everyone. But a hassle-free, self-serve system tied to machine IDs would be good too.
ohh god I hate iLok, worst system evar!
Why? It works great for me. Please enlighten me.

andydes
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by andydes » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:13 pm

Might be a translation thing, but the message you get when you use the last authorisation does make it sound like they are doing you a favour. As paying customers, you shouldn’t have to ask for more unlocks and certainly not explain yourself unless they have good reason to believe you are abusing the system.

No doubt they keep a record of how often you authorise. They already have a system that will email you when you are on the last authorisation. Should be easy for them to set a threshold of unlocks over a given time where you are automatically reset.

I recently installed on a new laptop and was told I was on the last one and should contact support stating my reasons if I need more. That’s 5 unlocks since Live 4. Should I really need to give them an explanation?

As for Offline unlocking, which I use for the desktop, but not laptop. I think it uses exactly the same code system as the online system, but just allows you to transfer the code manually. Only had to re authorise once from an OS reinstall. That was offline and I think it used up an authorisation code (only from counting my installs - 2 old computers, 2 new computers and one OS reinstall makes 5 which is the last one, right?).

Authorisations have continued through upgrades, whole number and point. You don’t lose any reinstalling the program, but you don’t gain any with paid upgrades either. Just mention this as it might not be obvious to those of you upgrading their machines regularly. It’s easy to keep track of where my unlocks have gone.

djsynchro
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by djsynchro » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:52 am

I bought Reaper, which royally kicks Live's butt where it comes to editing sound to picture (nudging clips on the timeline with custom keyboard commands - hello).
Reaper has a nag screen, but no copyright protection, in Justin's words: I am a user myself, and it struck me that people who paid for the software get a worse user experience than people who got a crack. So there are no cracked copies of Reaper. Although there must be people who used it that didn't like..... every other app ever made and to be made for ever and ever, Amen.

Khazul
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Re: Ableton's Authorisation system - Online V Offline

Post by Khazul » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:43 am

dum wrote:There's been several threads created about the issue throughout the years, ranging from general annoyance to seething rage. Some guy even advertised his licenses for sale here, after ranting about it on the board.
Might have been me as I remember having a major rant about this once, but the licenses I was selling after werent the ones I was still using (as I have two suite licenses and now only need the one).

But yes - I can remember being very pissed off trying to rebuild a machine and then some driver failure that hosed windows meant a reinstall and when doing that for two OS meant I ran out of unlock and was stuck until ableton got around to responding. Naturally this happened on a friday I think, so ended up waiting. Wasnt at all happy.
Nothing to see here - move along!

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