Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
photonal
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by photonal » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:45 am

The auth system is fine for me - used both offline + online, and getting a new reg when limit has been reached was always just a matter of explaining the situation to get it increased.

btw, *the worst* auth system must be for ReCycle - it asks for the original CD *very* often when starting it up, which can be a total PITA if they're not handy; one *reason* why I didn't get into Reason!

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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:21 pm

jbone1313 wrote:
Digital_Damage wrote:
jbone1313 wrote:I hate the Ableton unlock system. I much prefer iLok. Yes iLok has it's flaws, but it rules not having to beg everytime you need to make system changes. AudioEase allows iLok or CR, which I think pleases everyone. But a hassle-free, self-serve system tied to machine IDs would be good too.
ohh god I hate iLok, worst system evar!
Why? It works great for me. Please enlighten me.

it eats up an usb port? can be stolen and lost ? as any dongle based syytem ist absolutly shit for stage use..

I dont see a point in critizising abletons authorisation system.. its pretty cool and their handling regarding the registrations is relaxed.
Only thing i hate is that the demo mode is safe disabled because thats what you need in emergency cases-
a more wise cheme like 3 safes on one computer would be very helpfull and nobody buys theire single plugs anyway.. they should stop that stupidity and concentrate in selling suite., what will never happen with me when i cant test it with the ability to safe..

producers rule No.28

never touch safe disabled demos..never !!
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Ableton_David
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Ableton_David » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:24 pm

3phase wrote:it eats up an usb port? can be stolen and lost ? as any dongle based syytem ist absolutly shit for stage use..

I dont see a point in critizising abletons authorisation system.. its pretty cool and their handling regarding the registrations is relaxed.
Only thing i hate is that the demo mode is safe disabled because thats what you need in emergency cases-
a more wise cheme like 3 safes on one computer would be very helpfull and nobody buys theire single plugs anyway.. they should stop that stupidity and concentrate in selling suite., what will never happen with me when i cant test it with the ability to safe..

producers rule No.28

never touch safe disabled demos..never !!
If you're interested in trying out the free 30-day trial of Suite 8 (which works just like a paid Suite license, with saving enabled), we've recently reset the trial for all users: http://www.ableton.com/free-trial

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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:51 pm

David Abravanel wrote: If you're interested in trying out the free 30-day trial of Suite 8 (which works just like a paid Suite license, with saving enabled), we've recently reset the trial for all users: http://www.ableton.com/free-trial
ah..finaly.. was a bit taking the piss that any newby could play around with suite but not the longtime users.
i once tried it. but it was over after one day.. maybe sitting 30 days on my harddrive..
So its not 30 days usage time..
personally would prefer just 3 times safe limit..when i reach 3 times the state i want to safe something i need it.. otherwise..why bother...

safe disabled demos are a crime on software you do your own creative things with.. Its not like a computer game where you just loose the level played.. you loose content that maybe wont come back on a second try. Especially because when trying new tools you often get new ideas.. and while beeing soo positive about that tool..you loose that piece you just did with it. how is your mood regarding that software than? positive?
Its contraproductive for booth sides to safe disable demos. a loose loose situation,.therefore..

never try safe disabled demos. never !!

and for software companys into music software the rule is..

never do safe disabled demos. never !!

Beside the bad image factor that ruins the user experiance on the demo it´s actually a moral legitimation for hackers.
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Poster » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:11 pm

djsynchro wrote:Reaper has a nag screen, but no copyright protection, in Justin's words: I am a user myself, and it struck me that people who paid for the software get a worse user experience than people who got a crack. So there are no cracked copies of Reaper. Although there must be people who used it that didn't like..... every other app ever made and to be made for ever and ever, Amen.
rrright.. Reaper only costs 40,- or 150,-.. imo that's the real reason is has no protection because people are likely willing to pay for it..

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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by UncleAge » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:35 pm

3phase wrote:Especially because when trying new tools you often get new ideas.. and while beeing soo positive about that tool..you loose that piece you just did with it. how is your mood regarding that software than? positive?
I'm not going to argue your overall point as it is an opinion. And everyone is entitled to their own. But there is another perspective to the statement I selected above. And it's a simple one. This practice of letting a potential customer have possession of something and then seemingly take it away from them is called a puppy dog close (in other markets).

For instance: It used to be very common here in the states for a car dealer to give a customer a car to take home overnight if the customer was on the fence about buying it. When the customer would return the next day the salesman were trained to take the keys away from the customer as soon as they approached them. Of course the customer would feel as though something had been taken from them and would want it back. This tactic works. And it is one of the best, if not the best, close tactics you can use.

It's fair enough to say that this may not work on you. But I'll bet the majority of users overwhelming emotion, after creating something they really liked and wanting to be able to save that something, would be "I have to have this". Once again, it may not work on you, but I'd bet it works on most folks. And if it's effective then why not use it?

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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:00 pm

UncleAge wrote:
3phase wrote:Especially because when trying new tools you often get new ideas.. and while beeing soo positive about that tool..you loose that piece you just did with it. how is your mood regarding that software than? positive?
I'm not going to argue your overall point as it is an opinion. And everyone is entitled to their own. But there is another perspective to the statement I selected above. And it's a simple one. This practice of letting a potential customer have possession of something and then seemingly take it away from them is called a puppy dog close (in other markets).

For instance: It used to be very common here in the states for a car dealer to give a customer a car to take home overnight if the customer was on the fence about buying it. When the customer would return the next day the salesman were trained to take the keys away from the customer as soon as they approached them. Of course the customer would feel as though something had been taken from them and would want it back. This tactic works. And it is one of the best, if not the best, close tactics you can use.

It's fair enough to say that this may not work on you. But I'll bet the majority of users overwhelming emotion, after creating something they really liked and wanting to be able to save that something, would be "I have to have this". Once again, it may not work on you, but I'd bet it works on most folks. And if it's effective then why not use it?

you forget that it is not about cars and not about the software in question its about the result of the creativ work you do on the testdrive, that gets stolen from you by the safe disability..so you cant go back to that piece after youbought the software.. so you probably wont buy the software in question after such an experiamce and probably no other product from that software company.
Who buys from thieves or guys that intentionally damage your work?
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Poster » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:08 pm

3phase wrote:Who buys from thieves or guys that intentionally damage your work?
:lol:

UncleAge
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by UncleAge » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:22 pm

@3phase:
This a bit of false argument you are presenting. At the point that a potential customer is using the software in demo mode they have not aquired a license. That demo period can be restricted to allowing the user to try out the functionality of the software. Thus my analogy to the car sales. You have not paid for the product thus you have limited rights as to the extent to which you may use the product.

Next, the idea of theft is laughable. Even if you place fleeting inspiration on a higher level than anything else you can't support an argument for theft. You knew before you started that you would have to record you efforts separately if you needed to keep them for later use. In addition, if the perception of this "opus" is so strong that you cannot live without it then surely a few screen shots would allow you to at least re-create what was there. And if nothing else your assertions provide one the strongest arguments for their approach. You may not see it that way. But that's ok too.

[edited a few times for grammatical errors]

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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Khazul » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:25 pm

3phase wrote:you forget that it is not about cars and not about the software in question its about the result of the creativ work you do on the testdrive, that gets stolen from you by the safe disability..so you cant go back to that piece after youbought the software.. so you probably wont buy the software in question after such an experiamce and probably no other product from that software company.
Who buys from thieves or guys that intentionally damage your work?
There is a counter here on the lines of if why should you benefit for free? If the product let you create something truly excellent in demo mode, then you should not be able to benefit from it until you pay for the product.

Typically with time unlimited, but feature limited demos, people find a way to use them as a tool ongoing (melodyne being a great example with its 10 seconds or whatever), or looping the audio back to another application, or rummaging through bounced samples in the project folder etc etc.

The other restriction that might make sense on a demoo version would be that any project saved could only ever be reloaded on the same phsyical machine (but into the demo or fully authorised version), and once saved from a fuly authoised version, then becomes loadable anywhere as normal. Additionally audio and midi files created for whatever reason would need to be messed with in same way as to make them unuseable outside fo live - all gets a bit complex.

I do however think that fully registered user should be able to emergency unlock for a few days *even when they have no unlocks left* to cover the worse case period of the response time from ableton in adding more unlocks. And ableton should not taking the f***** piss by just issuing with a single unlock.

(I remember now why I was so pissed of with this last time - took ages to respond and they gave me one damned unlock instead of 3 and have never sinced fixed this - so yes - now I rember why I hate this all so much and currently also loathe hate and detest ableton as a company until they make good on this, and appologise for treating my like a shit/criminal etc) it does seem the current process is dicressionary and you have to beg - please sir etc etc - absolutely hate it and hate ableton for putting me through all this shit at a most awkward time.

I know that dongles can be jus as bad, but currently I think Propellerhead possible have the best allround and least instrusive approach, but laptop+dongles+clubs are a very high risk scenario too - I know people who have actually had dongles snatched out of their laptops when they were simple over the other side fo the DJ booh looking elsewhere for a second :evil:

So there absolutely has to be some kind of emergency unlock process even when you have no unlocks left until then - this whole damn thign sux big time - enough to definately jump ship if there was any viable alternative - which there isnt, so tough shit etc.
Nothing to see here - move along!

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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:18 am

Khazul wrote:
There is a counter here on the lines of if why should you benefit for free? If the product let you create something truly excellent in demo mode, then you should not be able to benefit from it until you pay for the product.

Thats the nasty attitude behind safe disabled demos but, why allow to testdrive in the first hand?
Because you want to sell something. You want me to spend my worktime with your product to convince me about its advantages. So you want to show me a benefit.
Thats not the point to screw with my work and waste my time when you want me to buy something from you.

Its not the tool that is doing my music and its not the tool that gets safed..
Its that what i did with the tool that gets safed. And usually i need to buy the tool to open that again anyway.
benefit? sure the tool helped and therfore i might buy it... but its never the software that lets me create. i dont need to safe preset content...
And when the tool dont helps to store my work its a shit tool and i wont buy it !
Production software should help to gain and keep results.. data loss on forst contact? a good sign..

No need to buy software that shows a nasty attitude behind it.. because this nasty attitude will show up at other points again. so actually live in demo mode shows you all what you get..inkl the possible data loss exactly in the brightest moments.
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Poster » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:27 am

3phase wrote:so actually live in demo mode shows you all what you get..inkl the possible data loss exactly in the brightest moments.
I cannot try this but the 30 days demo is without any restrictions, that should include save..

however, there are probably other ways to save your demo work, such as freezing/resample tracks, then copy the frozen/resampled files from the 'temp' folder..

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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by alex.the.forge » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:26 am

Khazul wrote: I do however think that fully registered user should be able to emergency unlock for a few days *even when they have no unlocks left* to cover the worse case period of the response time from ableton in adding more unlocks. And ableton should not taking the f***** piss by just issuing with a single unlock.

(I remember now why I was so pissed of with this last time - took ages to respond and they gave me one damned unlock instead of 3 and have never sinced fixed this ....
I remember being pissed off about the same thing, then they told me that they do actually have someone on call over weekends etc. Doesn't help if you are waiting for an email, but I have in the past called Berlin and had it acted upon straight away.

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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:45 am

as said before.. theire authorisation process is one of the most comfortable for bigger programs.. however could be optimized... there could be really an option in the program that unlocks temporarily for registred users.. that would actually give us the benefots of dongel software where you can run a session in another studio even without your own laptop.. the damage in another unregistred person having full access to the program for the rest of the time limit is little, it can be seen as an act of promotion and dont really creates any business loss.

when you can give 30 days free access to anybody you can give 10 times 3 days to your registred users aswell..
this would make up for the possible emergency cases in half a lifetime...
Last edited by 3phase on Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by alex.the.forge » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:51 am

3phase wrote:as said before.. theire authorisation process is one of the most comfortable for bigger programs.. however could be optimized... there could be really an option in the program that unlocks temporarily for registred users.. that would actually give us the benefots of dongel software where you can run a session in another studio even without your own laptop.. the damage of another unregistred person having full access to the program for the rest of the time limit than can be seen as an act of promotion and dont really creates any business loss..

when you can give 30 days free access to anybody you can give 10 times 3 days to your registred users aswell..
this would make up for the possible emergency cases in half a lifetime...
I think that sounds like a good idea actually.

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