Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Khazul
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Khazul » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:25 pm

3phase wrote:you forget that it is not about cars and not about the software in question its about the result of the creativ work you do on the testdrive, that gets stolen from you by the safe disability..so you cant go back to that piece after youbought the software.. so you probably wont buy the software in question after such an experiamce and probably no other product from that software company.
Who buys from thieves or guys that intentionally damage your work?
There is a counter here on the lines of if why should you benefit for free? If the product let you create something truly excellent in demo mode, then you should not be able to benefit from it until you pay for the product.

Typically with time unlimited, but feature limited demos, people find a way to use them as a tool ongoing (melodyne being a great example with its 10 seconds or whatever), or looping the audio back to another application, or rummaging through bounced samples in the project folder etc etc.

The other restriction that might make sense on a demoo version would be that any project saved could only ever be reloaded on the same phsyical machine (but into the demo or fully authorised version), and once saved from a fuly authoised version, then becomes loadable anywhere as normal. Additionally audio and midi files created for whatever reason would need to be messed with in same way as to make them unuseable outside fo live - all gets a bit complex.

I do however think that fully registered user should be able to emergency unlock for a few days *even when they have no unlocks left* to cover the worse case period of the response time from ableton in adding more unlocks. And ableton should not taking the f***** piss by just issuing with a single unlock.

(I remember now why I was so pissed of with this last time - took ages to respond and they gave me one damned unlock instead of 3 and have never sinced fixed this - so yes - now I rember why I hate this all so much and currently also loathe hate and detest ableton as a company until they make good on this, and appologise for treating my like a shit/criminal etc) it does seem the current process is dicressionary and you have to beg - please sir etc etc - absolutely hate it and hate ableton for putting me through all this shit at a most awkward time.

I know that dongles can be jus as bad, but currently I think Propellerhead possible have the best allround and least instrusive approach, but laptop+dongles+clubs are a very high risk scenario too - I know people who have actually had dongles snatched out of their laptops when they were simple over the other side fo the DJ booh looking elsewhere for a second :evil:

So there absolutely has to be some kind of emergency unlock process even when you have no unlocks left until then - this whole damn thign sux big time - enough to definately jump ship if there was any viable alternative - which there isnt, so tough shit etc.
Nothing to see here - move along!

3phase
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:18 am

Khazul wrote:
There is a counter here on the lines of if why should you benefit for free? If the product let you create something truly excellent in demo mode, then you should not be able to benefit from it until you pay for the product.

Thats the nasty attitude behind safe disabled demos but, why allow to testdrive in the first hand?
Because you want to sell something. You want me to spend my worktime with your product to convince me about its advantages. So you want to show me a benefit.
Thats not the point to screw with my work and waste my time when you want me to buy something from you.

Its not the tool that is doing my music and its not the tool that gets safed..
Its that what i did with the tool that gets safed. And usually i need to buy the tool to open that again anyway.
benefit? sure the tool helped and therfore i might buy it... but its never the software that lets me create. i dont need to safe preset content...
And when the tool dont helps to store my work its a shit tool and i wont buy it !
Production software should help to gain and keep results.. data loss on forst contact? a good sign..

No need to buy software that shows a nasty attitude behind it.. because this nasty attitude will show up at other points again. so actually live in demo mode shows you all what you get..inkl the possible data loss exactly in the brightest moments.
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Poster
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Poster » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:27 am

3phase wrote:so actually live in demo mode shows you all what you get..inkl the possible data loss exactly in the brightest moments.
I cannot try this but the 30 days demo is without any restrictions, that should include save..

however, there are probably other ways to save your demo work, such as freezing/resample tracks, then copy the frozen/resampled files from the 'temp' folder..

alex.the.forge
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by alex.the.forge » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:26 am

Khazul wrote: I do however think that fully registered user should be able to emergency unlock for a few days *even when they have no unlocks left* to cover the worse case period of the response time from ableton in adding more unlocks. And ableton should not taking the f***** piss by just issuing with a single unlock.

(I remember now why I was so pissed of with this last time - took ages to respond and they gave me one damned unlock instead of 3 and have never sinced fixed this ....
I remember being pissed off about the same thing, then they told me that they do actually have someone on call over weekends etc. Doesn't help if you are waiting for an email, but I have in the past called Berlin and had it acted upon straight away.

3phase
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:45 am

as said before.. theire authorisation process is one of the most comfortable for bigger programs.. however could be optimized... there could be really an option in the program that unlocks temporarily for registred users.. that would actually give us the benefots of dongel software where you can run a session in another studio even without your own laptop.. the damage in another unregistred person having full access to the program for the rest of the time limit is little, it can be seen as an act of promotion and dont really creates any business loss.

when you can give 30 days free access to anybody you can give 10 times 3 days to your registred users aswell..
this would make up for the possible emergency cases in half a lifetime...
Last edited by 3phase on Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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alex.the.forge
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by alex.the.forge » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:51 am

3phase wrote:as said before.. theire authorisation process is one of the most comfortable for bigger programs.. however could be optimized... there could be really an option in the program that unlocks temporarily for registred users.. that would actually give us the benefots of dongel software where you can run a session in another studio even without your own laptop.. the damage of another unregistred person having full access to the program for the rest of the time limit than can be seen as an act of promotion and dont really creates any business loss..

when you can give 30 days free access to anybody you can give 10 times 3 days to your registred users aswell..
this would make up for the possible emergency cases in half a lifetime...
I think that sounds like a good idea actually.

luddy
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by luddy » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:43 am

I think Ableton's authorization policy and implementation are head and shoulders better than most other software vendors whose products I own. Ableton has been really helpful to me in a couple of pinches involving live shows etc.

The fact that Live can run full-featured in demo mode is fantastic IMO. I've run live shows in this mode before. It's a drag if you suffer a crash, because you can't save the mixer state etc., but otherwise it's unbelievably useful.

-Luddy

rasputin
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by rasputin » Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:41 am

Poster wrote:rrright.. Reaper only costs 40,- or 150,-.. imo that's the real reason is has no protection because people are likely willing to pay for it..
That's what I did. Love Reaper to death. Sometimes I use it ReWired into Live strictly to get the big time display.

Someone commented "what if the company goes out of business?" This did happen in the 90s. I loved this Macintosh MIDI software called Opcode Vision. Opcode got bought by Gibson which promptly fired all the Opcode employees. Vision used an authorization system dependent on a 3.5: floppy disk.

After a couple years and a lot of serious anguished screaming by users, Gibson released the last version of Vision with copy protection removed.

I'm aware that something could happen to Ableton and I might never be able to use Live again. That's just the risk of non-open-source software.

Copy protection: since live 2.03 when I started, over several different Macs and PCs, I've never had a problem with them. But of course I'm just a hobbyist...
Live 9.1 <> occasionally Reason 4.0.1 <> Reaper.latest! <> Windows 7 on a bespoke Intel Q6600 <> ASUS P5E <> 8GB RAM, M-Audio Delta 2496 and that's it.

Hermanus
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Hermanus » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:46 pm

I don't understand the reason of such a thread.

Come on! when you save the unlock file, there's no problem with authorizations at all for further reinstall.

/me go back to making music, much more efficient than yadayadaing on the abe forum/

friend_kami
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by friend_kami » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:04 pm

i was pretty stumped some days ago trying to authorize live. see, my computer just died so i am currently borrowing my girlfriends computer. shes running windows 7 so i had to authorize, then testdrive live to see if it worked properly on win7. problem is that each compability testrun requires a new authorisation. so the last one didnt go through, had to email them and now i got two extra unlocks. one is for my girlfriends computer, and the other one is for my replacement laptop which i should be getting pretty soon. im gonna uninstall it on my girlfriends computer when i get my replacement because she doesnt need it, still i have to beg ableton in order to be able to use the software i bought from them on a dualboot system, because i dont have any more unlocks.

int he past i have had to beg for more unlocks too, having upgraded computers, switching os's and so on and so fourth.
its shit annoying -.-

3phase
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:52 pm

friend_kami wrote:i was pretty stumped some days ago trying to authorize live. see, my computer just died so i am currently borrowing my girlfriends computer. shes running windows 7 so i had to authorize, then testdrive live to see if it worked properly on win7. problem is that each compability testrun requires a new authorisation. so the last one didnt go through, had to email them and now i got two extra unlocks. one is for my girlfriends computer, and the other one is for my replacement laptop which i should be getting pretty soon. im gonna uninstall it on my girlfriends computer when i get my replacement because she doesnt need it, still i have to beg ableton in order to be able to use the software i bought from them on a dualboot system, because i dont have any more unlocks.

int he past i have had to beg for more unlocks too, having upgraded computers, switching os's and so on and so fourth.
its shit annoying -.-

as long the "begging" is not really necessary and they are relaxed about it and dont get nasty and picky i wouldnt see a reason to complain.. would be however good to be able to get the authorisations count reset somehow as you can do with NI.. in the moment i run life only on one computer but had athorisations on my external drive in the crashtimes and probably still the rusty pc authorized that stays canibalized in the cellar.. so i might run into the problem aswell as soon i get a new laptop and want to start wright away.
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Mister36
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Mister36 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:58 pm

I ran out of unlocks yesterday. I didn't need another one immediately but thought I would request more for the future. I followed the link and did this and two unlocks were added to my account within five minutes.

I did not beg, just gave a simple reason for needing them (I'd run out and wanted more in case I needed them in the future) and they were not granted, they were added.

I don't see this system as being any worse or more infuriating than any other personally. It's especially preferable to a dongle too. Ableton alert you when you've run out, allowing you to immediately "top up" your unlocks for the future and, if the worst happened, you could just use the demo, surely?

I think of all the things that this is a bit of a non-issue. But that's just my opinion.

3phase
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by 3phase » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:13 pm

Mister36 wrote:
I think of all the things that this is a bit of a non-issue. But that's just my opinion.

true, and its defenetly false to call the system unprofessional.

even safe disabled demos are standard.
but on music software a not so good idea. on data processing software ok.. where the software does the work for you.. but on creativity tools?
I really have a policy to dont run safe disabled demos because i dont like to loose material created in the demo time... is pretty much the same as loosing good material in a nasty crash and creates the same set of emotions. not a sales argument at all IMO.
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Poster » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:52 pm

3phase wrote:even safe disabled demos are standard.
but on music software a not so good idea. on data processing software ok.. where the software does the work for you.. but on creativity tools?
I really have a policy to dont run safe disabled demos because i dont like to loose material created in the demo time... is pretty much the same as loosing good material in a nasty crash and creates the same set of emotions. not a sales argument at all IMO.
as I said previously: you're not going to lose work done with the Live demo..
I think of all the things that this is a bit of a non-issue
+1

friend_kami
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by friend_kami » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:43 pm

3phase wrote:
Mister36 wrote:
I think of all the things that this is a bit of a non-issue. But that's just my opinion.

true, and its defenetly false to call the system unprofessional.

even safe disabled demos are standard.
but on music software a not so good idea. on data processing software ok.. where the software does the work for you.. but on creativity tools?
I really have a policy to dont run safe disabled demos because i dont like to loose material created in the demo time... is pretty much the same as loosing good material in a nasty crash and creates the same set of emotions. not a sales argument at all IMO.
but it IS begging when you are emailing the company you bought a product from and ask them "hi, can i get a new authorisation because <insert reason here>". they coul djust aswell decide that no, youve had enough authorisations and leave you out to dry. so yeah, it is begging. its just annoying having to ask for permissions ot use a product you bought because you have installed a new os, are testing out different configurations etc. not everyone gets a computer and sticks with it; i try out different os's, change computer setups etc as much as i can. why? because thats my other hobby; computers. having to ask for permissions everytime is reallly annoying, no matter if they give you one or not; doesnt matter. its still annoying and should be fixed.

if you lock to hardware atleast then you wouldnt have to need a new one everytime you change os, or try out a compability mode or whatever. also makes it a bit easier to keep tabs of whos installing it in several devices; if you beg for an unlock means that you are installing it outside your normal useage computer, and THEN youd need to explain why (i need to do this soon when i get my replacement computer), and then ableton can assess the situation accordingly. doesnt solve the problem but it makes it a bit less annoying anyways; figuring out a protection scheme that doesnt require challenge/response, or the way we have now simply isnt possible without a dongle, most likely.

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