Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Ben_Binary
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Location: Australia

Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by Ben_Binary » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:49 pm

[nis] wrote:
Ben_Binary wrote:
Why is it left up to users on this forum to write controller scripts that add the functionality for the APC40
that Ableton should have SUPPORTED from the beginning?

But the bigger question is why didnt they SUPPORT Hanz in his efforts ???
Clearly a lack of time / developer resources.
Um yes I figured that out already.
I appreciate your honesty but that reality needs to be changed.
[nis] wrote: Nevertheless I think the APC40 is a great controller and the default functionality already offers a lot of possibilities, doesn't it?
Yes but that is not what I was saying.
Best case scenario > The product I purchased was misrepresented to me and its planning was incompetent.
Worst case scenario > The APC40 was crippled and hanz work ignored to increasae sales of M4L & APC20.

Either way is fine with me as long as ableton is honest about it and I can learn my lesson.

Your Honesty and transperancy has and will get you pretty far in my books including my maximum ammount of tolerance plus financial and intellectual investment.
[nis] wrote: Luckily there are some clever guys who took it to another level. You'll always find things that can be better and we'll surely won't be able to make everyone happy (again).
Lucky. for you guys ?
Why not make the Hanz thread a sticky?
All this free promo for some artists who use ableton but someone who actually invests time in your product and the community and he gets no support from Ableton... Thats very short sighted > dumb marketing guy sort of mistake.
[nis] wrote: Just look at the mockups that some people posted here. Some want a controller with 5000 buttons, 800 motorfaders, drumpads and a built-in 64-channel audio interface, whereas others just want a button matrix without faders or encoders. Some can't live without transport buttons and PAN controls, others find them rather useless.
Sorry you lost me here. I dont know how crazy new controller designs relate to supporting a controller script... or a simple thought about supporting (or even mentioning) clever guys who took it to another level on your website.

I will show you respect by not questioning the reasons why this has not happened.
[nis] wrote: Anyway, what exactly do you mean by not supporting Hanz Petrov's efforts?
If your company cannot recognise what a valuable resource some clever guys who took it to another level are for your company you got an uphill battle against extinction... similar to traditional record labels/ business models.

As I said earlier. I like Ableton. I ? Live. You are excellent and deserve respect on these forums. And I hope I am not sounding like an ableton basher/whinger etc. its just my opinion.

I hope you are in the process of 'managing'out these issues.

Im over it - as i dont entirely agree with the sentiment of this thread.
Please PM me if you wish to discuss this further.

If just one person reads all this and gets more out of their APC40 > :D :D :D

and ... thanks Hanz.
soundcloud Live 9 & Push / Reaper / Octatrack / Rytm / MicroBrute / Nord Modular G1 & G2 / Waldorf Rack Attack / Juno 60 / Monotron & Duo / SeratoDJ / Komplete 9 / OhmForce

n8tron
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by n8tron » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:37 pm

xzusa8ky wrote: If you ask me Ableton should only release one version of Live, with all tools and synths included, that way Ableton could save money and ressources, and all users would be treated the same way. At the moment i become the feeling that you are treating the users in different ways which isnt a fair policy. You releases the AMP yesterday as a free plugin, but it isn't free for all? We have to pay 99$ for it, which i feel is wrong. And again the people with Live Suite gets the plugin for free? It seems like that Ableton is forcing people to buy the Live Suite, before they have all the needed tools you would normally find in a lot of DAWs nowaday's. For me that's not so easy to understand.
I think this is a good point but it's a tricky thing. For everyone that says the suite is a great deal, you'll get just as many people who have no need of any of the extras and just want the use of Live as cheap as possible. I like the option to have both. But I personally do like all-in-one packages. You get the most for your money. I do think Ableton charges to much for just about everything they sell, especially the extras. It's not cost effective for a non-Suite user to by just one or two of the extras that they want...

Suite Download - 699
Live Download - 449
Price difference - 250

What you get for that difference:
Amp - 129
Collision - 159
Latin Percussion - 99
Analog - 129
Electric - 129
Tension - 129
Sampler - 129
Operator - 159
Drum Machines - 79
Total - 1141

Its ridiculous. And even more so if you figure out the price between the box versions. IMO those addons are not worth those prices, but they are worth the $250 upgrade price. So you are right, they are in a way forcing to buy the suite, if you want just TWO of the add ons its more cost effect to buy the suite. Again, I do like have both options, but why charge so much for them?

H20nly
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by H20nly » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:30 pm

n8tron wrote:Suite Download - 699
Live Download - 449
Price difference - 250

What you get for that difference:
Amp - 129
Collision - 159
Latin Percussion - 99
Analog - 129
Electric - 129
Tension - 129
Sampler - 129
Operator - 159
Drum Machines - 79
Total - 1141

Its ridiculous. And even more so if you figure out the price between the box versions. IMO those addons are not worth those prices, but they are worth the $250 upgrade price. So you are right, they are in a way forcing to buy the suite, if you want just TWO of the add ons its more cost effect to buy the suite. Again, I do like have both options, but why charge so much for them?
... or a no brainer.

I've seen a lot of posts where people ask for better deals. I get your point, their points... all that is fair enough, but damn... 250 for the whole shibang is A GOOD DEAL... 8O ...if you think about it. So peeps can jump on it or.... not.

Me, I hate it when I want to do something with a piece of software and find out that that one part is disabled... I paid for the upgrade so that I never get that error message. I'm not that into synths (yet), but I have found myself returning to what got me started with Live, my Axiom 25 (which came with a copy of Live when I was using Cubase). I am into drums, because of that, my focus was not on Operator or Analog, but having the option means that I can expand. I personally am glad that I dropped 250 for Drum Machines and Sampler (a la Suite)... because since I did it that way... I've got to play with Operator, Tension, Collision, Analog and now AMP... Plus, I still have tools in the kit. Thats a Smokin Deal! I'm glad I took advantage of it.




P.S. our bass player loved playing with Tension after he broke his wrist... so yet again, the good deal overfloweth.
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

BoddAH
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by BoddAH » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:00 pm

H20nly wrote:
n8tron wrote:Suite Download - 699
Live Download - 449
Price difference - 250

What you get for that difference:
Amp - 129
Collision - 159
Latin Percussion - 99
Analog - 129
Electric - 129
Tension - 129
Sampler - 129
Operator - 159
Drum Machines - 79
Total - 1141

Its ridiculous. And even more so if you figure out the price between the box versions. IMO those addons are not worth those prices, but they are worth the $250 upgrade price. So you are right, they are in a way forcing to buy the suite, if you want just TWO of the add ons its more cost effect to buy the suite. Again, I do like have both options, but why charge so much for them?
... or a no brainer.

I've seen a lot of posts where people ask for better deals. I get your point, their points... all that is fair enough, but damn... 250 for the whole shibang is A GOOD DEAL... 8O ...if you think about it. So peeps can jump on it or.... not.

Me, I hate it when I want to do something with a piece of software and find out that that one part is disabled... I paid for the upgrade so that I never get that error message. I'm not that into synths (yet), but I have found myself returning to what got me started with Live, my Axiom 25 (which came with a copy of Live when I was using Cubase). I am into drums, because of that, my focus was not on Operator or Analog, but having the option means that I can expand. I personally am glad that I dropped 250 for Drum Machines and Sampler (a la Suite)... because since I did it that way... I've got to play with Operator, Tension, Collision, Analog and now AMP... Plus, I still have tools in the kit. Thats a Smokin Deal! I'm glad I took advantage of it.




P.S. our bass player loved playing with Tension after he broke his wrist... so yet again, the good deal overfloweth.

I wanted to take it slow and buy Live 8 first before Suite and/or Komplete one day in the future but I think you just convinced me. :lol:

Amp is said to be unimpressive but as a guitarist I want it so bad, even if it’s just to have a quick and easy to use perfectly integrated amp sim to try out ideas.

H20nly
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by H20nly » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:33 pm

^ :lol: now can I start a thread telling Ableton how they owe me for helping push their product? :wink:




or...


will they hate me for interfering with individual add-on sales :?: :P
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:35 pm

[nis] wrote:
3phase wrote: And.. my sync issue is not a local problem of my computer..
I was referring to Machinesworking's sync issues, who was heavily complaining and arguing with me. Luckily it seems to work for him now. He promised to post this in the sync thread, but he didn't.
??? Why are you even in tech support if you get snippy with people who are frustrated with issues specifically affecting Live and no other DAW on their machine? You keep on ignoring that little nugget in favor of painting me out as a complainer. Can we drop the hysterics please? Granted I wouldn't want your job, but though the issue is just a "case" to you, it prevented me from using the Evolver in Live for months. Why wouldn't I be frustrated? and why wouldn't I blame Live if it's the only DAW on my computer that was affected by sync issues???
Here!

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 4#p1195534

3phase
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by 3phase » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:11 am

Machinesworking wrote:
[nis] wrote:
3phase wrote: And.. my sync issue is not a local problem of my computer..
I was referring to Machinesworking's sync issues, who was heavily complaining and arguing with me. Luckily it seems to work for him now. He promised to post this in the sync thread, but he didn't.
??? Why are you even in tech support if you get snippy with people who are frustrated with issues specifically affecting Live and no other DAW on their machine? You keep on ignoring that little nugget in favor of painting me out as a complainer. Can we drop the hysterics please? Granted I wouldn't want your job, but though the issue is just a "case" to you, it prevented me from using the Evolver in Live for months. Why wouldn't I be frustrated? and why wouldn't I blame Live if it's the only DAW on my computer that was affected by sync issues???
Here!

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 4#p1195534

sorry with all the noise i made regarding the sync issue in general i missed your actual problem..
Is it a clockout problem? thats actually the only diziplin live halfways works..at least on a mac..

Just read in the other thread that novation automap is involved.. and this is known for trouble as m-audio interfaces was known for trouble in the past..

in general live should be able to give a sold clock out.. at least when you not try to have different offset delays within the same midi interface.. that only works on some midiinterfaces..
Beside that only the remote feedback on the clock output was killing the clocking for me...what is one of the bugs i was moaning so much about...

What exactly is your problem?
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:19 pm

3phase wrote: sorry with all the noise i made regarding the sync issue in general i missed your actual problem..
Is it a clockout problem? thats actually the only diziplin live halfways works..at least on a mac..

Just read in the other thread that novation automap is involved.. and this is known for trouble as m-audio interfaces was known for trouble in the past..

in general live should be able to give a sold clock out.. at least when you not try to have different offset delays within the same midi interface.. that only works on some midiinterfaces..
Beside that only the remote feedback on the clock output was killing the clocking for me...what is one of the bugs i was moaning so much about...

What exactly is your problem?
Covered in the thread you started.
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 4#p1195534

Basically it seems like some third party Application or driver is messing up Live in regards to sync.
For what appear to be technical reasons, this problem didn't occur in Digital Performer or Logic.
After updating Automap, and the Logitech driver, as well as going to Snow Leopard, the problem went away and Live Sends Beat Clock sync to the Evolver decently enough. (first note is offset, but that's not a deal killer).
I've received an old copy of the older Logitech driver, which is by far the most likely suspect, I'm going to instal it tomorrow and see if Live again has sync issues so [nis] has more information for future issues like this.

simpleton
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by simpleton » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:46 pm

xzusa8ky wrote:Dear Ableton Headquarter!


...It's the wrong way to go Ableton! People who have been loyal to your company for years should be treated better, Much better!

Don't forget Ableton - We are the Backbone in your company! Nobody else....
Yes! I am a loyal user and I'm really pissed that I haven't received any stickers since six years! I'm all out of the green ones already. If you can send me a really big one I would appreciate it. I backed my Lexus up into a street light and made a dent on the rear bumper. I don't have the money to fix it as it's quite expensive and I haven't been ABLE TO sell any cool tracks because I'm stuck with ABLETON.
Image
The Leveller wrote:Wow, a weird shaped dead coral with sh!t stuck to it. Proof indeed of supernatural abilities.

davepermen
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by davepermen » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:05 pm

xzusa8ky wrote:Don't forget Ableton - We are the Backbone in your company! Nobody else....
you're not a backbone anymore if you want your stuff for free. doensn't pay the bills.
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

H20nly
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by H20nly » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:21 pm

^ yeah, that would be fat... cellulite style.
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

dj_blueprint
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by dj_blueprint » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:45 pm

Actually, the up front cost of Live should be higher (or stay the same) and the upgrade costs should be lower depending on what version you started with - and if you upgraded sequentially instead of jumping from, say, 5 to 8.

maybe a tiered 10% off (subtract the version you started with from the latest version x10% = percentage off the upgrade) with a maximum of 50% off. That also depends on if you upgraded sequentially.

H20nly
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by H20nly » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:57 pm

with round numbers....


10% off of $250 (x) 10,000 users = $250,000

:idea: I wonder how many coder's salaries you can pay with that? :?


40% off of $250 (x) 5,000 users = $500,000

:idea: I wonder how many bills you can pay with that? :?



its really cool spending Ableton's profits. I'd buy a phat car and a house if I could just write off 750,000 Ableton bucks. I'd even buy Live 9 when it came out... something tells me that might take a while though, if ever, under this new model.
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

ShelLuser
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by ShelLuser » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:14 pm

H20nly wrote:its really cool spending Ableton's profits. I'd buy a phat car and a house if I could just write off 750,000 Ableton bucks. I'd even buy Live 9 when it came out... something tells me that might take a while though, if ever, under this new model.
That's why Ableton should consider re-licensing their software under an open source license and make the source code freely available for download. Then we'll fix our own bugs! :twisted:

As we all know: open source == $$ profit $$ (just don't ask for who :mrgreen:)

ok ok ok; this is obviously not meant seriously ;-)


Its amazing, really, that a small amount of people can manage to tick off many 'officials' (sad, but I don't blame 'm) and eventually "ruin" it for the rest.

Oh; and I really admire [nis]' guts & efforts here!
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

Usedtobe
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Re: Ableton You Should Give Something Back To The Loyal Users!

Post by Usedtobe » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:32 pm

ableton kicks ass. i just spent the last three hours making a phat set for parties, and it was fun...

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