Ableton Live 8.2

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Pitch Black
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by Pitch Black » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:19 pm

3phase wrote:
[nis] wrote:
3phase wrote: but with propper syncing in all directions you can !!
Ok 3phase, how about this: I repeat what I said before, which is that I'm about to investigate the whole sync topic and, if I find things that we can improve, I'll try to push its priority as good as I can. I will play a fair game and inform you about the status as often as I can. In return I expect you to stop hijacking other threads with all these lengthy rants about your sync issue and keep them in your own sync thread. I also offer to assist you with setting up your next show. I'm not sure if you already realized this: I am your studio neighbor. It takes me a few seconds to come over and help you with your problems. I may not be able to solve all issues you have, but we should be able to find a halfway satisfying setup for your next show. I offered this a while ago, but you ignored it. Not sure if you have overlooked it or if you simply ignored it. Anyway, I'm offering it again. Take it or leave it.

Deal?

there is nothing you can help me with the sync issues.. no offense.. but its ableton life itself that has build a barrier for any possible workaround..
3phase, can you see any irony in that statement?

I don't get it. Why don't you let him come over and see what he can do? He's offering to come to your house/studio and have a look at your problems with you.

3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:21 pm

davepermen wrote:3phase: for big names support: deadmau5 doesn't like the buggy sync of live. it's not a problem for him per se, but if it would work, he would put it to some creative use.

other than that, typical response from you: someone suggests you to work together on it, which would help both you and ableton, and you reply "you can't help me anyways", denying all the help offers (he's not the first who offered it to you. the third that i remember he is, actually)

sorry dude.. any giging electronic musican would be in for better syncing.
i wouldnt consider deadmouse as a big name..but he probably is by now..

i dont know if manuel götsching is using live.. but he would be in for that too. nobody likes wobbely sync.. and regardless of workarounds or wether you need it wright now.. you want your software ableton to deal with that in cases you need it.

a swiss army knife.. the cneter of stage clocking and distribution..

as a studio daw is the center of the studio, live should be able to be the center and master or slave for any hardware config you might come along on stage

and its actually close to be that..just missing precission and many details here and there..
could even have an midi trigger syncing like we had in notator..is this still in logic? for drummers beeing the master? probably..that is one thing i never used.. but its handy to have such an option.


And on more to the allready mentioned fixed reaktion time on a start command.. could be even adjustble.. between as fast as possible but wobbely up to a complete quarter note fixed offset.
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petit nuage
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by petit nuage » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:24 pm

@leon thanks for reassuring me my friend but i have lot of things to improve héhé :lol:
have a nice day !
Last edited by petit nuage on Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

davepermen
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by davepermen » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:26 pm

not considering deadmau5 a big name (which's name you can't write correctly, too) just shows the ego you are. and how far away from reality you are.

and yeah, i would be in for better syncing myself. even while i do not have a need for myself. it's a simple "why not?" thought. i sure would find use for it one day..
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3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:35 pm

Pitch Black wrote:
3phase, can you see any irony in that statement?

I don't get it. Why don't you let him come over and see what he can do? He's offering to come to your house/studio and have a look at your problems with you.
thats a nice offer..and in any other regard highly welcome.. but i am very sure about that he cant magicaly improove lives reaktion to incoming clock.. so live needs to be the clock master..
And he already told me the solution for the clcok out problem.. you cant have remote feedback on the port.. so i have to do remote feedback via a merger or forget about the G2 doing the live remote..
i still have a bitstream 3x ..to evolution fader boxes and a lunchpad laying around here..

i know how to use them.. so as nice it is from him to offer direct help.. there is not much he can do.

except that he looks into the problem and trys to get it on the agenda of ableton..there is nothing more i can ask for in the moment.

In any case there wont be improovements up to the next week. And i allready consider to do that gig hardware only..
just a lot of nordmoduar patch work involved.. but that is what i am shifting ahead for month now.. So i shouldnt be too hard with ableton when it comes to doing first things first :-(
I am not good in that either...

Lets say like this..
I am fine when L9 becomes a propper syncer..

It defently should be the version of life that makes a good step forward in that regard.
In ideal fixes it once and for all

As we can see now clearly.. hardware will never be out of fashion for stage use.
Many new products and rising second hand prices speak defently for reniseance of it.

But Ableton life is now part of the rig.. it wont be hardware only again.. so the interfacing between the 2 worlds has to be tight.. In ideal ableton life on a laptop would be as good and trouble free as a battery powered hardware device. I am certain that this is possible.
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3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:37 pm

davepermen wrote:not considering deadmau5 a big name (which's name you can't write correctly, too) just shows the ego you are. and how far away from reality you are.

and yeah, i would be in for better syncing myself. even while i do not have a need for myself. it's a simple "why not?" thought. i sure would find use for it one day..
??? sorry .. i heard the name first time 2 years ago and i liked some tracks of him..
one track to be precise.. the others was rather crap arms in the air trance techno..

but to consider him a big name in the electronic music circus it needs a bit more.

I consider Mr Henke a much bigger name than deadmaus for example.
Or Daft Punk..villalobos, daniel bell, and and and ..

however.. if he would sign such a petition his name is big enough for me.
Last edited by 3phase on Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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davepermen
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by davepermen » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:38 pm

he could exactly see your setup, how you use it, what you expect, live in front of himself, to understand in detail what to put on the schedule, and to be able to set up an identical test case at the HQ so they can test and verify their fixes once they get them. so they can take away the burden from you to test, to them, to test.

this is part of the "see what we can do to fix this". sometimes just seeing it in real life (or hearing it, in this case) helps to understand the problem and situation in more detail.
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[nis]
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by [nis] » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:39 pm

3phase wrote:
thats a nice offer..and in any other regard highly welcome.. but i am very sure about that he cant magicaly improove lives reaktion to incoming clock.. so live needs to be the clock master..
And he already told me the solution for the clcok out problem.. you cant have remote feedback on the port.. so i have to do remote feedback via a merger or forget about the G2 doing the live remote..
i still have a bitstream 3x ..to evolution fader boxes and a lunchpad laying around here..

i know how to use them.. so as nice it is from him to offer direct help.. there is not much he can do.

except that he looks into the problem and trys to get it on the agenda of ableton..there is nothing more i can ask for in the moment.

In any case there wont be improovements up to the next week. And i allready consider to do that gig hardware only..
just a lot of nordmoduar patch work involved.. but that is what i am shifting ahead for month now.. So i shouldnt be too hard with ableton when it comes to doing first things first :-(
I am not good in that either...

Lets say like this..
I am fine when L9 becomes a propper syncer..

It defently should be the version of life that makes a good step forward in that regard.
In ideal fixes it once and for all

As we can see now clearly.. hardware will never be out of fashion for stage use.
Many new products and rising second hand prices speak defently for reniseance of it.

But Ableton life is now part of the rig.. it wont be hardware only again.. so the interfacing between the 2 worlds has to be tight.. In ideal ableton life on a laptop would be as good and trouble free as a battery powered hardware device. I am certain that this is possible.
Fair enough. I keep you posted about the progress.
Nico Starke
Ableton Product Team

davepermen
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by davepermen » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:41 pm

3phase wrote:
davepermen wrote:not considering deadmau5 a big name (which's name you can't write correctly, too) just shows the ego you are. and how far away from reality you are.

and yeah, i would be in for better syncing myself. even while i do not have a need for myself. it's a simple "why not?" thought. i sure would find use for it one day..
??? sorry .. i heard the name a few years ago and i liked some tracks of him..
but to consider him a big name in the electronic music circus it needs a bit more.

I consider Mr Henke a much bigger name than deadmaus for example.
Or Daft Punk.. and and and ..

however.. if he would sign such a petition his name is big enough for me.
dunno, but quite some cd releases, tons of sold albums and tracks, being played from thousands of djs worldwide, having millions of fans, touring all around the world in front of thousands of people each day, being invited to host the mtv music awards, and doing all of this for a long time with labels and other big names being annoyed by him as he did want to do it it's own way without signing any contracts..

i consider that .. rather big.

of course, everyone sees daft punk as biggest (as he does, too, see them bigger than himself, being an inspiration for much of his career)


big enough for being important if he would sign? yes. even i would be big enough for that (because you can use any live user that signs your petition. even while i'm only a tiny non-pro :)
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3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:42 pm

[nis]"
Fair enough. I keep you posted about the progress.
thnx
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3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:48 pm

davepermen wrote: even i would be big enough for that (because you can use any live user that signs your petition. even while i'm only a tiny non-pro :)
its not about me its about impressing the owners of ableton.. and big names are usually seen as opinion leaders while the little non pro is considered as clueless and easily satisfied...

And you are wright.. big sales are seen as big names.. i just doubt that deadmaus is an influential artist.
His music is well done and melodic but actually an old shoe he hasnt developed.. i personally are more attracted by names that have created own styles...

but..thats only me..

however.. i doubt that i will find the time to run around to get the petion signed.

i am just certain that i would get them all.. from dead mouse to mouse on mars

everybody likes to have the ability to sync with another musican or hardware drummachine when necessary without any trouble or having the groove suffering.
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davepermen
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by davepermen » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:56 pm

3phase wrote:
davepermen wrote: even i would be big enough for that (because you can use any live user that signs your petition. even while i'm only a tiny non-pro :)
its not about me its about imperssing the owners of ableton.. and big names are usually seen as opinion leaders while the little non pro is considered as clueless and easily satisfied...
i do not look at it that way. but to each it's own.
And you are wright.. big sales are seen as big names.. i just doubt that deadmaus is a influential artist.
His music is well done and melodic but actually an old shoe he hasnt developed.. i personally are more atracted by names that have created own styles...
well, he made all the music on it's own, redefined the house electro genre while doing so, and explores very much genres, defines quite some new culture, and is influential for a lot of other artists and djs. but obviously, you can't look at it that way right now, as the results of this can only be looked at 10, 20 years from now.
but..thats only me..

however.. i doubt that i will find the time to run around ti get the petion signed.
hm if only there would be web petition tools... :)
i am just certain that i would get them all.. from dead mouse to mouse on mars

everybody likes to have the ability to sync with another musican or hardware drummachine when necessary without any trouble or having the groove suffering.
i bet you would get tons of people that don't even know what live is, just because supporting someone is always cool :)

but yeah, as said, who would be AGAINST it? nobody.

but actually, most setups i see are more dj-like setups. where one artist comes AFTER the other, so mixing into/outof the other arist is all one needs. there, nudge serves well enough (it's more or less how djs mix all their tracks, and it works well enough for them).

i'm interested right now how paul van dyk syncs his two laptops. he uses two live and some hw running on stage, mixing between the two. maybe he's a big enough name for you (while i see him less big than deadmau5, as he got more pushed up by a label, less "done it all by himself". but all are great artists on their own of course). does sync work for him? or does he dj-style nudge around?


btw deadmau5' drummachine is most likely 'nerve', as it's developed by a friend of him. and as this is a vsti, midi sync there is no big issue. low latency is.
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Manestra
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by Manestra » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:00 pm

[nis] wrote:
petit nuage wrote:its irrelevant/off topic but as boring man as im , and as i see that ableton read this thread , i must tell :

.. PLEASE ABLETON implement THE BOUNCE IN PLACE/true destructive editing (freeze,flatten,unfreeze's process for ALL the clips into a track ,is long and boring when you have more than hundreds audio clips ..not in live's spirit) FEATURE to complete the audio editing side of live !!!(its maybe the 5012 times i ask for that feature arf :oops: ) but i think it is essential for some of us .

sorry for that héhé :wink:
It's on the list. No promises though (as always).
Cool - thought right about that 3 hours ago - but read that just now :D

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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:02 pm

davepermen wrote: but actually, most setups i see are more dj-like setups. where one artist comes AFTER the other, so mixing into/outof the other arist is all one needs. there, nudge serves well enough (it's more or less how djs mix all their tracks, and it works well enough for them).

i'm interested right now how paul van dyk syncs his two laptops. he uses two live and some hw running on stage, mixing between the two. maybe he's a big enough name for you (while i see him less big than deadmau5, as he got more pushed up by a label, less "done it all by himself". but all are great artists on their own of course). does sync work for him? or does he dj-style nudge around?

paul defently would sign my petition.. i guess he just beatmatches to ableton life.. he was a good beatmatcher decades ago allready.. but he is mainly a dj..never have seen a lifeset from him..
however i am certain that he dont likes wobbely sync..

no one does. I just see that ableton is not aware how much such little thing would be recognized in the szene.. especially because beeing bad on the clock is the bad standard.

and one for sure..ther is no electronic musican that dont knows abaout ableton live by now.. most own it.. not everybody is using it as main daw.. or stage tool.. but they all have it..

in the electro scene ableton is defently very well known.
Last edited by 3phase on Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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davepermen
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by davepermen » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:05 pm

3phase wrote:paul defently would sign my petition.. i gues he just beatmatches to ableton life.. he was a good beatmatcher decades ago.. but he is mainly a dj..never have seen a lifeset from him..
however i am certain that he dont likes wobbely sync..

no one does. I just see that ableton is not aware how much such little thing would be recocnized in the szene..

and one for sure..ther is no electronic musican that dont knows abaout ableton live by now.. most own it.. not everybody is using it as main daw.. or stage tool.. but they all have it..

in the electro scene ableton is defently very well known.
i was thinking outside the scene. i bet you could go on the street and people would sign it. o crap, you're in berlin, so most WOULD know it.

said differently, even my mom would sign it. my coworkers would. why? because i would say "it would help a friend, harm no one". who wouldn't sign, then? :)

well, pauls djsets have some live parts in it (he does have some hw on stage, plays with that. i think i saw a 303 once?). so while dj focused, it's a bit more than that. but i guess he nudges. i GUESS, because i haven't noticed him nudging. but i wasn't close enough to see it in detail.
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