Ableton Live 8.2

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:43 pm

anybody human wrote:
Pitch Black wrote:Have you guys tried using a common MIDI clock-master, and both instances of Live working as slaves? Such as a hardware drum mach, groovebox, master-keyboard clock, etc

That always worked well enough for me. Hows it been in your experience?
This is my question also. Shouldn't an external clock do the trick?
Sorry if this has been answered, I'll go back and read the intervening 10 pages now :)
no..its wobbely regardless how good the external clock is.. abletons own clock out is pretty good aswell thats not the problem..

the only advantage from external clocking of two ableton instances is that they booth wobbel than and sound better together this way than having one that runs straight with one that is wobbeling around..

how much the wobbeling is destructiv depends on the users sensebility and music style.
In any case abletons performance is not the worse on the market, but it is far away from beeing good.

Native instruments reaktor is much better here for example and as said before the real refference here are hardware drummachines and sequencers like the mpc because ableton jumped in the ring to replace theese little buggers on stage..
And therfore the reffernce standard is high and not easy to match.. but with actual computers especially on os x this should be possible. At least it should be possible to get way better than it is now.. Of cause with some thinking and programming effort.
But i think ableton should be the market leader in that diziplin and not just as bad as the others.

Serato bridge ..to get back on topic.. shows that they can improove syncing questions when they want to.
Its just more important to have solid operation for dj´s than allowing ableton acts to sync with each other like that..
And that is what i critizse with that relase.. that the serato sync came first..
#But that is past now..
At least the serato sync should lead to a better inter applikation syncing for live users in the next releases.
Not another 8 years please !!!
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anybody human
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by anybody human » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:32 pm

Ok, well I still think it's worth trying a nice external clock, just to be on the safe side. I would just assume an external clock would be part of the solution, even if Ableton can improve things on their end.

You should take the guy up on his offer because two minds are better than one. Plus, he'll see exactly what the situation is, so your type of setup would probably be looked at when they're troubleshooting. If Live's sync could be better, and it seems by most accounts it could, he said he's going to look into it and see what can be done. Your issue is going to be addressed, at this point that's all you can ask for really.

BTW 8.2 is working quite well for me. They must be working hard cos the frequent updates seem to be fixing a lot of the problems. These are bug fixes after all, not major revisions.

3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:16 pm

anybody human wrote:Ok, well I still think it's worth trying a nice external clock, just to be on the safe side. I would just assume an external clock would be part of the solution, even if Ableton can improve things on their end.

You should take the guy up on his offer because two minds are better than one. Plus, he'll see exactly what the situation is, so your type of setup would probably be looked at when they're troubleshooting. If Live's sync could be better, and it seems by most accounts it could, he said he's going to look into it and see what can be done. Your issue is going to be addressed, at this point that's all you can ask for really.

BTW 8.2 is working quite well for me. They must be working hard cos the frequent updates seem to be fixing a lot of the problems. These are bug fixes after all, not major revisions.

a friend of me just told me that two apple laptops synced via ethernet instead of midi should bring good results..
that is what NIS sugested aswell..but with the additional info that airport should be switched off

dont helps me because my stage partner is on pc.. and i actually would prefer a mpc to be the master again..
Seems that the crashing is over.. but with a hardware drummachine as clockmaster i actually dont wory about software trouble..
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twisted-space
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by twisted-space » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:56 pm

3phase, you might want to check out Rtp_Midi from here
It's a windows network midi driver that is supposed to be compatible with the OSX implimentation.
I've not tried it myself, so I can't say if it works.

Dennis DeSantis
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:03 pm

Hi folks,

While the sync discussion is important, maybe the 8.2 thread isn't the best place for it. Keeping it here makes it difficult for users who want to find information about either 8.2 OR sync issues.

Could we keep the sync topic in a different place?

thanks,

3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:07 pm

twisted-space wrote:3phase, you might want to check out Rtp_Midi from here
It's a windows network midi driver that is supposed to be compatible with the OSX implimentation.
I've not tried it myself, so I can't say if it works.

thanks...
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3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:12 pm

Dennis DeSantis wrote:Hi folks,

While the sync discussion is important, maybe the 8.2 thread isn't the best place for it. Keeping it here makes it difficult for users who want to find information about either 8.2 OR sync issues.

Could we keep the sync topic in a different place?

thanks,

sorry that it shifts to the sync issue again.. but...

thats the most relevant news in L8.2 that you seemless sync to a timecode record now ..whooooo
how that has happened?

beside that the only info this thread regarding L8.2 is providing is that amp is great..

ok..we know that by now.. sorry that we interupt the cue of your congratulators for this smal step for mankind but giant step for all of us..

But i still think it would be on the behalf of the OP to complain about our bad behaviour...

its not really talking bullshit what is said about sync issues and possible solutions..
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Dennis DeSantis
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:20 pm

Hey 3phase,

No, it's not an issue of "bad behavior." I just think it would be easier for users who are interested in sync issues to find discussions about them if they were under a topic title like "Ableton's Sync Sucks" rather than "Ableton Live 8.2."

Since 8.2 doesn't address your issues at all, discussion of them in this particular thread doesn't seem like the best way for you to ensure they get noticed.

Best,

3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:28 pm

Dennis DeSantis wrote:Hey 3phase,

No, it's not an issue of "bad behavior." I just think it would be easier for users who are interested in sync issues to find discussions about them if they were under a topic title like "Ableton's Sync Sucks" rather than "Ableton Live 8.2."

Since 8.2 doesn't address your issues at all, discussion of them in this particular thread doesn't seem like the best way for you to ensure they get noticed.

Best,

sure..but how can me move the content when another question pops up and you just answer it we are back to the sync..

your option would be to ignore the question or what do you suggest?

never get of topic in a thread? ok,thats the modern phpbb style..but remember the old irc based newsgroups?
it was quite common that a discussion moved around in one thread and that was actually interesting..

and one for sure. the sync quetsions will pop up another few years up to the moment ther are no issues anymore..

so ther will be other threads interested users will find info regarding work arounds.

whatever the ethernet might do... i will try that with mentioned pc driver.. it would be nice if this would work via midi too..

my mpc or machinedrum dont have an ethernet port and are good clock masters on stage...

so..back to tpic.. L8.2

what can you tell us about what we dont know yet? some hidden goodies worth knowing about?
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davepermen
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by davepermen » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:30 pm

the idea: use an existing, or create a new thread about the unrelated topic, and post the link as an answer to the question that got raised, with some text in the form of "lets continue the sync discussion there". or what ever. it's the button called URL above this text box you write in when you reply :)

example:
as your post about sync raised the question on it's priority, i opened a thread about it, where you can poll, and discuss your expiriences with it. you can find it here: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=148864

end of example:

voilà :)
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3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:35 pm

davepermen wrote:the idea: use an existing, or create a new thread about the unrelated topic, and post the link as an answer to the question that got raised, with some text in the form of "lets continue the sync discussion there". or what ever. it's the button called URL above this text box you write in when you reply :)

example:
as your post about sync raised the question on it's priority, i opened a thread about it, where you can poll, and discuss your expiriences with it. you can find it here: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=148864

end of example:

voilà :)
But how does that relate to Live 8.2 and the skandal that they manage to sync to dj´s before the get an ableton internal sync?

sorry..that was very well related to this thread here ..

besides..waht is about the bugs first no new features policy? are the timecode in bugs solved now in L8.2?
i will test it.. to bad that your change logs dont tell about such things..
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davepermen
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by davepermen » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:40 pm

it was related enough to raise it in here, but then, it should get an offspin in an own thread. it deserves an own big fat thread on the top of the forum, doesn't it?


bugs first no new features policy is still true for ableton INTERNALLY. but external collaborations don't cost bugfixing time. and bridge was announced before the statement, so it counted as a feature that should work without bugs, just as anything else. amp was not made by ableton, so it's not related.

so yeah, all the abletonians is, they try to fix bugs. if some bugfixing allows a feature to go out of beta, then this warrants (completely unrelated), a .1 upgrade in the version number.

what could be fun, though, would to define certain stuff as beta right now. midi sync, f.e.. for beta, it's good enough (it does sync, sort of). other features could be called beta too, i guess..
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realtrance
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by realtrance » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Going to skip the flamewar about timing.

Ableton Live 8.2 installed quite smoothly on my setup; went quite quickly, too. I only have a 3Mbps internet connection, so it took about 1 hour and 34 minutes to download. Install was on the order of about 12 minutes total (am currently downloading again to install on my Mac laptop, this is a Windows XPSP3 system I'm referring to; my Mac installs are always smoother).

First, thanks for all the hard work! The release notes are extensive, the documentation and lessons and all remain superb. Suite remains a wonderful, extensive, integrated collection of a lot of years of effort, at Ableton, at AAS and now, at Softube.

Amp: I'm not an electric guitarist, I've just dreamed of being one for almost forty years. <G> My favorite electric guitar sounds include those from Neil Young, Lou Reed, Jimi Hendrix, classic Rolling Stones. Just in terms of pure, sheer, tone, recordings by those artists are my primary reference points, just so you know where I'm coming from.

Hardware and software, I'm quite familiar with Roland's Boss line, in one form or another; the most recent incarnation I doodle around with is on the V-Synth GT. The built-in amp modeling on that instrument does a pretty accurate job of capturing all the years of work Roland's done on guitar effects. I'm also familiar with Guitar Rig since version 3, love what it does, love its sound. Love its range, control, tonality. Also familiar with all the sound effects work over the years in the Native Instruments Reaktor library, since about version 2.3, if memory serves.


So: with that context, and keeping in mind I'm not a professional, just love music, have a long-trained ear which I think is pretty good, have spent over 14 years with electronic music, I'll say this simply: Amp sounds just great.

Seems to me these days that a lot of people -- just an impression -- get software and then just play it with everything set at default. I just started tweaking and there's plenty of variety with the simple controls on Amp, if you're willing to actually use it. :)

Just to use specific examples: I've got Live 8.2 up, with Tension/Guitars and Plucked/Guitar-Clean Coils as the instrument, and Amp with the Celan preset. I've got the latter set to Lead model, Gain at 6.67, Bass at 5.95, Middle at 5.00, Treble at 6.35, Presence at 7.22, Volume at 8.02 and Wet/Dry set to 100% and it sounds great to my ears. And that's without even adding in a cabinet yet.

Also seems to me that with an amp modeling effect, 98% of the result and fun of it is tweaking the damned thing! :) The whole point of having fuzz tone and electric guitars and etc. is that you can spend hours just playing with the tone, and that's how, eventually, you get what sounds good to you, and can create "your" sound.

You gotta do the same with Amp to see what it can do for you. I find it kind of silly to compare it all, every piece of hardware and software is different, and that's always been the case. Don't expect just plunking down a credit card to turn you into a brilliant musician with your own distinctive sound, it takes a little more than that, is all I'd advise here.

I'd also say that if I were just "stuck" with Amp and nothing else, I'd be perfectly happy and not looking over my shoulder jealously at anyone with some other piece of software or hardware. I enjoy making sound with almost anything at this point, and that's the place to get to, as a musician, ultimately, in my opinion. Amp can get you there just as well as anything else. 8)

broc
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by broc » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:14 pm

3phase wrote:besides..waht is about the bugs first no new features policy? are the timecode in bugs solved now in L8.2?
i will test it.. to bad that your change logs dont tell about such things..
I'm interested in this as well.
Which bugs have you noticed so far with MTC input?

3phase
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Re: Ableton Live 8.2

Post by 3phase » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:22 pm

broc wrote:
3phase wrote:besides..waht is about the bugs first no new features policy? are the timecode in bugs solved now in L8.2?
i will test it.. to bad that your change logs dont tell about such things..
I'm interested in this as well.
Which bugs have you noticed so far with MTC input?
psst..lets open another thread or look in the bug forum....
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