Amp reivews

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Winterpark
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by Winterpark » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:45 am

alex.the.forge wrote:you people that say it sounds horrible are using it with the Cabinet plug-in right? Just asking because a lot of people only mention Amp itself when saying how bad it sounds

I'm just surprised because it didn't sound bad at all to me. Maybe I need to do a day time full volume test and actually plug my guitar in rather than just loading it on a track with it already recorded….

I really can't see Ableton choosing a bad emulation though and softube have won a lot of awards for their own products….
Alex, I guess my review was one of those 'bad' ones.

My comparison of Amp with Guitar Rig 4 was a/b-ing similar setups with both plugins...

ie: boost amp and 1x12 cabinet (ableton) vs. vox amp with matched cabinet (NI)

I had a fender jazzmaster through the hi-z DI input of my golden age pre73.

I turned off all extra GR4 fx, and turned mono to stereo in amp/cab... so i could get a similar stereo mix.

I maintain that tone-wise GR4 is much better, on a variety of the cabinet models.
The mesa hi-gain amp probably stacked up the best out of the lot.

All of that said... I still can see quite a bit of potential in these amp and cab plugs. I very much like the fact that you have easy access to the wet-dry, and it seems to be a good way to add some extra tone to all types of sounds.

and it's an awesome addition for us suite owners.
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Martyn
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by Martyn » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:40 am

I think it sounds great, and I really don't say that lightly about guitar amp sims.

The bottom end HAS to be there to be authentic, it's exactly what you'd get if you miced up a real cab, you'd ALWAYS have to roll off some bottom end on the desk. If anyone wanted to send this signal to a real power amp and cab you'd absolutely need it to be like this, you'd never get that classic 'knock' without it. I'd like to try that actually, recon it'd sound pretty good cranked up to feedback levels.

What most impresses me is the sound where it's just breaking up, most emulators really fall down right there but this one seems to do something really nice at that point. Also, when you switch pickups, it really sounds right, another place where previous amp sims fall down. I can't speak for really high gain settings as I never really used them, even while doing Motorhead covers using real Marshalls back in the days when I had hair. There are lots of freebie plugins that can give you a modern, high gain scooped death metal sound if that's what you want, but if it's classic valve amp breakup between clean and dirt the choices are very slim indeed.

Overall I'm really impressed, many thanks to the Abes for offering it as a freebie to suite owners.

wtf is it with those presets though? I'm not even sure why you'd need them at all, it's such a simple plugin. It must have been really hard to program such bad sounds using such simple controls, well done!

crumhorn
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by crumhorn » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:26 am

I wish it included a spring line reverb. Nothing in Live seems to sound quite right.
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alex.the.forge
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by alex.the.forge » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:08 pm

crumhorn wrote:I wish it included a spring line reverb. Nothing in Live seems to sound quite right.
I will eat some kind of head wearing apparel if there is not an improved reverb in Live 9, and I would expect it to use convolution.

[disclaimer: this is just a personal opinion]
Last edited by alex.the.forge on Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

3phase
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by 3phase » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:29 pm

Martyn wrote:I think it sounds great, and I really don't say that lightly about guitar amp sims.

The bottom end HAS to be there to be authentic, it's exactly what you'd get if you miced up a real cab, you'd ALWAYS have to roll off some bottom end on the desk. If anyone wanted to send this signal to a real power amp and cab you'd absolutely need it to be like this, you'd never get that classic 'knock' without it. I'd like to try that actually, recon it'd sound pretty good cranked up to feedback levels.

What most impresses me is the sound where it's just breaking up, most emulators really fall down right there but this one seems to do something really nice at that point. Also, when you switch pickups, it really sounds right, another place where previous amp sims fall down. I can't speak for really high gain settings as I never really used them, even while doing Motorhead covers using real Marshalls back in the days when I had hair. There are lots of freebie plugins that can give you a modern, high gain scooped death metal sound if that's what you want, but if it's classic valve amp breakup between clean and dirt the choices are very slim indeed.

Overall I'm really impressed, many thanks to the Abes for offering it as a freebie to suite owners.

wtf is it with those presets though? I'm not even sure why you'd need them at all, it's such a simple plugin. It must have been really hard to program such bad sounds using such simple controls, well done!

i am actually getting currious now..
you play the git direct in a normal line input or a special instrumet input?
And is ther one of the prests that are delivered in L(.2 non suite capabel to show this lind of qualitys?

the ones o tryed up to now are total over produced special fx nonsense..no one that simulates an amp to the slightest..

sofar plugin direct in my G2 and add a distortion module + some extrs gives the better amplifikation for me...

ok.. it´s unfair to compare a little plug with a clavia dsp monster synth that was designed to please guitarists
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Martyn
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by Martyn » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:09 pm

3phase wrote: you play the git direct in a normal line input or a special instrumet input?
And is ther one of the prests that are delivered in L(.2 non suite capabel to show this lind of qualitys?
I just plugged my Strat straight into one of the channels on my Spirit Notepad mixer, that's it.

No, I didn't use any of the presets, just an eq8 after the cab plugin (you have to have the cab plugin after Amp, obviously) with some bottom end rolled off and then I just tweaked it like I would an amp and experimented with the Cabinet settings. I'd like to have had a mic placement control to blend between Off and On axis on the Cabinet plugin but it's nothing you can't correct with a bit of EQing.

I'm not sure I'd pay as much for it as Ableton are asking but I really do think it's a good emulation, it does the 'clean to just breaking up' thing better than my (aging) COSM GX700 rack unit.

Yeah, I like it.

BTW, it sounds nice with Reaktor's Spring Tank after it.

crumhorn
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by crumhorn » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:20 pm

Martyn wrote:
3phase wrote: you play the git direct in a normal line input or a special instrumet input?
And is ther one of the prests that are delivered in L(.2 non suite capabel to show this lind of qualitys?
I just plugged my Strat straight into one of the channels on my Spirit Notepad mixer, that's it.

No, I didn't use any of the presets, just an eq8 after the cab plugin (you have to have the cab plugin after Amp, obviously) with some bottom end rolled off and then I just tweaked it like I would an amp and experimented with the Cabinet settings. I'd like to have had a mic placement control to blend between Off and On axis on the Cabinet plugin but it's nothing you can't correct with a bit of EQing.

I'm not sure I'd pay as much for it as Ableton are asking but I really do think it's a good emulation, it does the 'clean to just breaking up' thing better than my (aging) COSM GX700 rack unit.

Yeah, I like it.

BTW, it sounds nice with Reaktor's Spring Tank after it.
it would be quite simple to set up a rack that blends between a number of different cabs with differing mic placements. Seems like the kind of thing that should be included in the presets.

(also thanks to you I'm going to have to try putting the cab before the amp just to see what happens).
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alex.the.forge
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by alex.the.forge » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:33 pm

crumhorn wrote: it would be quite simple to set up a rack that blends between a number of different cabs with differing mic placements. Seems like the kind of thing that should be included in the presets. .
pretty sure there is

I got 8.2 before the AMP license was sorted out so it didn't install all the right live packs. I did "repair library" after getting the license and there were loads of new presets.

AYBABTU
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by AYBABTU » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:41 pm

I had fun with both Amp and Cabinet. Got a piano sounding like a crunchy guitar up on a stage. Some cool tricks can be done with cabinet and beats to drop them to sounding like beats from the next room then back to normal, some uses for sure.
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H20nly
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by H20nly » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:24 pm

I finally got my odd authorization issue worked out and got to try AMP...

I like it!

I threw an instance of it on a guitar riff we use in one of our new songs... sounds great with the Blues setting in AMP, I forget atm how I set Cab up on it, but it was good sounding. A little wet dry adjustment and fine tuning was all it took. Its not exactly Live's most settings encumbered component...

3 out of 3 people in the room were impressed with the life it breathed into above mentioned guitar track both soloed and especially when added back into the mix. Thats a big WIN in my book.

thanks Abes. Its a keeper.
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Tarekith
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by Tarekith » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:58 pm

Haven't been able to install 8.2 til now since I was working on some mixdowns for people still on a lower version. Did it today and finally got to check out Amp too. I have to say this one pleasantly surprised me, took me no time at all to dial in a really nice clean sound. A more distorted tone took me a bit longer though, you've really got to dive in and sculpt on those.

For just straight amp and cabinet modelling, I'd say it's pretty close to my Pod X3. Of course the Pod has all those modelled effects too, but for raw sound Amp does a better job than I expected to be honest. You really have to use the Cabinet plug in too, otherwise it does sound a bit flat. With that running too though, there's some really nice tones to be had.

I play an Ibanez S540 if anyone's curious.

stonee
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by stonee » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:09 pm

i went back, took a while to sculpt a shape I liked, was pretty happy, then opened up a NI guitar cab sim,(twang combo) and all of a sudden amp sounded garbage again... pretty dissapointed still...

milosh
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by milosh » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:15 am

I like amp and cabinet very much!!
DRY/WET knob is a unique feature and the fact that all the amps sims share all the controls is great.
I can find a tone I am looking for in couple of seconds.
Sure it will not beat the sound a good real valve amp, but the flexibility of this plugin is awesome and makes it very usable.

cheers

nebulae
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by nebulae » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:01 pm

I finally tested out Amp, and I have to say that tuned into the clean sounds quite a bit. Even the heavier amps had a nice crunch when I dialed back the pots on my guitar, like Martyn suggested. I was able to also get some very cool sounds by inserting familiar ableton effects. So the usability of the tools is excellent, and you will get some interesting and decent sounds.

Now my gripes: Does it sound in any way authentic? Not to my ears. Then again, few amp emulators do. So that's not a real issue - this is yet another tool to help craft your sound, be it used for guitar or bass, or synth or drums.

But my real gripe is that when you distort, this thing doesn't sound very good. Very buzzy and not full. Nothing like a miced amp, and nowhere close to Guitar Rig or Studio Devil, both of which can provide a meaty distorted sound in an instant.

I chalk it up to different tools for different needs. If I wanted a clean tone, or if I wanted to create an interesting tone or guitar sound, I'd turn to Amp. If I wanted a screaming distorted metal sound, I'd prolly turn to Guitar Rig or Studio Devil or my Pod.
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UncleAge
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Re: Amp reivews

Post by UncleAge » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:45 pm

nebulae wrote:But my real gripe is that when you distort, this thing doesn't sound very good. Very buzzy and not full. Nothing like a miced amp, and nowhere close to Guitar Rig or Studio Devil, both of which can provide a meaty distorted sound in an instant.
Not that different from my initial thoughts. However, I'm slowly changing my mind.

I created a set with Amp, GR4, AT Jimi, AT Fender. The idea was to see if I could create presets in Amp that were almost identical to the other three. The part that I'm chasing right now is the tone adjustments going into Amp. Left on it's own it sounds dull. But I am having a little luck with tube saturation plugs as well as overdrive and a bit of eq. All of them, in very small amounts, are having a dramatic affect on the output. Now this is no surprise since this is how it is with most real amps. But I'm stating this not so much for the seasoned guitarists reading this thread but for the everyone else who is trying to dial in a useable/desirable sound.

Now I don't expect to get it dead on. Just like I doubt that I could get any of the other amp sims to sound absolutely identical to each other. But I think that if Live had better (read: geared towards guitar/bass) overdrive/saturation plugs then I believe Amp would really shine.

If I find a magic bullet I will let you all know :)

In the meanwhile, if any of you come up with something tasty please post your chain or a hint as to how you got there.

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