Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
outershpongolia
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by outershpongolia » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:30 pm

simpli.cissimus wrote:How about a piano roll that has a feature to show only keys
of a chosen scale.
Not showing them or giving different color to keys out of the scale.

And I agree with having more advanced piano roll...
1. punch in the notes in the scale, hit fold, delete them, or put them OUTSIDE of the loop brackets..

2. write your tone.

Tweaking Knobs
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by Tweaking Knobs » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:18 pm

oddstep wrote:Have you tried using the chord device before an arpeggiator device? The chord device has velocity controls for each note played and the arpeggiator will cycle through the notes. Chord+arpeggiator+scale. Instant minimalist tunage!

yes i have. is cool yeah.


but the other midi stuff would be cool.

Willyum
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by Willyum » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:52 pm

anybody human wrote:These are the kind of DAW features that core users are asking for. Ableton: hire a couple of people to do this kind of stuff, make it happen. Advanced DAW features are so very long overdue. C'mon, midi programming, automation curves, is that so much to ask?
What's crazy to me is that Ableton said they working on these things a few years ago along with time stretch in sampler/simpler and a bunch of other core-Live usability upgrades. But then they keep coming out with features based on purchasing other peoples programs.... I get mad that this little $99 program has features that blow away my $1000+ program (suite, apc40.. etc). It's starting to get to a point that I don't even recommend Live to my friends anymore when they ask. I just tell em to try them all now. :(

William
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by William » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:27 am

I'd also like more midi options.
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funknotik
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by funknotik » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:42 am

Tweaking Knobs wrote:Live's piano roll and "step sequencer" are very very ... rudimentary.

you dont have tools like in other Daws, you just have the very basic features, add note, delete note, enlarge note asnd duplicate note.


How about having cool stuff like sugar bytes Thesys, or FLstudio piano roll, wich has :

slide and portmaeto :
Image

* Riff machine (Alt+E) - Opens the Riff machine "auto-hit-song" generator, but shhhhhh don't tell anyone you used it!
* Quick legato (Ctrl+L) - Performs a quick "legato" to the sequence in the Piano roll (applies only to the selection if any). This tool is a quick preset for the Articulate tool (see below).
* Articulate (Alt+L)- Opens the Articulate tool dialog which allows you to apply staccato, portato, legato and similar effects to the sequence in the Piano roll (applied only to the selection if any).
* Quick quantize ( Ctrl+Q) - Applies basic quantize to all selected notes/slides depending on the global snap setting in the Recording panel (if nothing is selected, applies to all).
* Quantize ( Alt+Q) - More advanced version of the quantize feature. Opens the Quantizer settings dialog.
* Quick chop ( Ctrl+U) - Slices long notes into many shorter, based on the global snap setting in the Recording panel (if nothing is selected, applies to all).
* Chop ( Alt+U) - More advanced version of the chop feature. Opens the Chopper settings dialog.
* Glue ( Ctrl+G) - Glue contiguous (touching) notes together.
* Arpeggiate (Alt+A) - A powerful arpeggiator based on specialized score presets. See Arpeggiator for more information.
* Strum ( Alt+S) - Shifts the timing and velocity of the individual notes in chords to simulate strumming (as in guitar playing and some other string instruments). See the Strum settings dialog.
* Flam (Alt+F) - Applies "drum flam" effect to the score (applies only to the selection if any). See Flam for more information.
* Claw machine (Alt+W) - Slices and re-times note sequences (applies only to the selection if any). See Claw machine for more information.
* Limit (Alt+K) - Allows you to transpose the score and limit it within a user-specified key range. See Limiter for more information.
* Flip (Alt+Y) - This tool can flip the score both vertically and horizontally. See Flip for more information.
* Randomize ( Alt+R) - Opens the Randomizer dialog where you can generate random note sequences based on a specific scale and/or randomize the note levels (including those of existing notes).
* Scale levels (Alt+X)- Allows you to multiply/offset/invert the events in the integrated event editor, as well as map events to a logarithmic or exponential scale. See Scale Levels for more information.
* LFO ( Alt+O) - Shows the LFO box, which lets you draw LFO-shaped events in the integrated event editor. Note that this feature is enabled only when in the property/event selector (15) type of event is selected, instead of a note property type.


please give us some of that stuff !!!


link :http://flstudio.image-line.com/help/htm ... Roll_Tools
Thanks you for elaborating this, it's the one complaint I've had about Ableton since I came over from FLstudio. The Piano roll and step sequencer in Flstudio is still the best I've ever used and for that I still use it accept for very basic sequencing when done in ableton. Again definetly bump this thread, let's get them to make it better. Ableton has been very responsive to the user community since I started in with Ableton 5. So I'm sure if enough of us mention it they will respond hopefully with a better sequencer. Also thanks again for elaborating this and putting it so eloquently, way better than I would have said!!! :D :mrgreen:
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Ed Lektron
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by Ed Lektron » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:35 am

+1 for advanced midi & event editing

Tis one thing I miss about Logic :(

jtdj
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by jtdj » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:45 am

Piano Roll? Why dont you guys learn to play the keyboard and actually play music instead of clicking in notes on a roll. You'll never be able to make decent music if you cant even play an instrument and have no actual creative music knowledge. Quite frankly its pathetic.

oddstep
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by oddstep » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:28 am

Ha. Ha. Fight now! Well, yeah, a lot of editting is just covering up for basic lack of skills, ableton midi devices are quite performative... yknow midi controlled arp rates or stuff that allows me to play contrapuntal sequences on multiple instruments in a fashion that i think would be nearly impossible to do live. Especially if i am controlling mix levels and sends as well. Thats what computer music is about isn't it... making music that simply could not be played on a piano. so instead of spending years learning the violin, i spend years getting to understand how to get the most out of a midi control setup.

Parametex
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by Parametex » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:07 pm

I would die/kill for some slide features in pianoroll !!!

xuoham
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by xuoham » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:26 pm

3phase wrote: any 30 year old atari midi program is better suited for midi composition.
:lol: This is very true and somehow unbelievable. I remember 1987, Steinberg Pro 24 and its wonderful Logical Editor. So many things you could do with it...
:::::::::


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ATH-M50/TascamVLX5/ApacCustomUSBFootController/+Guitars

auto-lock
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by auto-lock » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:33 pm

MIDI TRILL POST RECORD (dub)

jtdj
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by jtdj » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:06 pm

oddstep wrote:Ha. Ha. Fight now! Well, yeah, a lot of editting is just covering up for basic lack of skills, ableton midi devices are quite performative... yknow midi controlled arp rates or stuff that allows me to play contrapuntal sequences on multiple instruments in a fashion that i think would be nearly impossible to do live. Especially if i am controlling mix levels and sends as well. Thats what computer music is about isn't it... making music that simply could not be played on a piano. so instead of spending years learning the violin, i spend years getting to understand how to get the most out of a midi control setup.

i fully understand what ur sayin, what i dislike is 'DJ's' thinking they'll start producing, get a cracked copy of Live and start clicking on a piano roll, put a sidechain on the bass and think they're erch. If you have no musical talent your really gonna struggle to self produce.

casiblake
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by casiblake » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:02 pm

jtdj wrote:i fully understand what ur sayin, what i dislike is 'DJ's' thinking they'll start producing, get a cracked copy of Live and start clicking on a piano roll, put a sidechain on the bass and think they're erch. If you have no musical talent your really gonna struggle to self produce.
I think we've reached a point where we can appreciate production and composition ability and consider it separate from "instrumental" skill.

Unfortunately no-one cares about this when it comes to "dance" music. Or most electronic music really.

As for the OP, fully agreed. MIDI editing in Live is not ideal, and misses many features from other DAWs. But I'm rather more concerned with the MIDI latency present whenever IN or AUTO monitoring is used on a MIDI channel, which STILL results in a fairly undesirable "lagged" feeling when playing into a MIDI channel with a controller. Same issue with audio recorded late when IN or AUTO monitoring is used.
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simpli.cissimus
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by simpli.cissimus » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:17 pm

outershpongolia wrote:
simpli.cissimus wrote:How about a piano roll that has a feature to show only keys
of a chosen scale.
Not showing them or giving different color to keys out of the scale.

And I agree with having more advanced piano roll...
1. punch in the notes in the scale, hit fold, delete them, or put them OUTSIDE of the loop brackets..

2. write your tone.
Yeah, I know how to do that... :roll:

I just think it's much better if the software would mark the lines.
No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

locojohn
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Re: Advanced Piano roll , sequencing features.

Post by locojohn » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:18 pm

Great post, Tweaking Knobs. I subscribe with your requests for the piano roll/sequencing improvements in Live.

Andrejs
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