OSC , Why abes dont like it ? and benefits.

[Tweaking Knobs]

why do abes dont like osc ?

what are the benefits of osc ?

[8O]

From the wikipedia article on OSC:

The advantages of OSC over MIDI are primarily speed and throughput; internet connectivity; data type resolution; and the comparative ease of specifying a symbolic path, as opposed to specifying all connections as 7-bit numbers with 7-bit or 14-bit data types.

For me, I really like logical, easy to understand, descriptive address spaces, being able to send strings and the really high resolution for controller data. At the moment I'm using OSCulator to convert to MIDI for Live, so it loses those OSC benefits. OSC support is a relatively straightforward development task, especially just OSC input, for example... hope it comes to Live sometime soon...

[8O]

I know MAX/MSP supports OSC, so I'm assuming Max for Live supports it too - maybe someone can confirm - so that might be a reason to lower the priority for native OSC support... maybe... just guessing, like.

[hoffman2k]

I know MAX/MSP supports OSC, so I'm assuming Max for Live supports it too - maybe someone can confirm - so that might be a reason to lower the priority for native OSC support... maybe... just guessing, like.

OSC support is already technically possible without MFL. ST8 made LiveOSC using python.
Its not so much a matter of priority than one of resources. There isn't a python developer at Ableton that isn't already incredibly busy. If you check the Jobs section, you'll notice there is room for more.

MFL does support OSC, but that is purely incidental. It also does MIDI, HID, Serial, DMX, Video Streams, Bluetooth, etc..

[8O]

^ what are the limitations of LiveOSC?

Also, agreed about resources being also an issue, but wouldn't a native OSC client be done in C++ rather than Python? That's how I did mine .

[hoffman2k]

^ what are the limitations of LiveOSC?

Also, agreed about resources being also an issue, but wouldn't a native OSC client be done in C++ rather than Python? That's how I did mine .

Probably. It works for basic controlling stuff, but for more accurate timing they might need c++. I dunno, maybe they can just crank up the refresh rates of the python scripts. There are plenty of people who can answer this better than I could. Hans Petrov, ST8 and Broc come to mind.

The limitations of LiveOSC are the same as in MFL. We can only access whatever is available in the API.

[8O]

(sorry for diverting your thread a bit, Tweaking Knobs )

Maybe it's a stupid question, but can you play notes, like a MIDI keyboard would, using LiveOSC, or is it purely control of the Live interface?

[hoffman2k]

(sorry for diverting your thread a bit, Tweaking Knobs )

Maybe it's a stupid question, but can you play notes, like a MIDI keyboard would, using LiveOSC, or is it purely control of the Live interface?

Its all about control. Though you can write notes inside clips with LiveControl (which is a result of LiveOSC)

[fx23]

from playing from a while with OsC, this is very user friendly to access as mentionned things such as
strings, matrix for cliplauncher, see ST_8 livecontrol, touchable or mine in signature.
you can ie ask one shot for all datas, strings and colors of a device parameters, whereas it would be a
total pain to decode via midi sysex. to trig a clip you simply enter X Y go, ask a name X Y go...

however ive been disapointed OSC is far to be an ultimate protocol relating transferts/latency/sync.

where midi can handle so much thingss with only 4 bytes, OSC tags make a single float send take a minimal amount of 12 bytes,
and generally much more. so at LEAST 3x midi size for each datas. Network is also sometimes a tricky area with can go down for unpredicable results and latency as shared by several parts of the host, (browser, web updates ect).

so for straightworfard low latency control Midi has still power over osc. But for overall Datas OSC is cool.
man midi is from 80 it's outdated, they need to work
on refreshed midi II, by waiting Osc is the most used challenger and should definitively be a native part of live.
It's in other softs from ages MAx, usine,PD,VVV resolume ect..

even Logic went to OSC. live is certainly the most interesting daw to control via OSC.

my fear is they lock that to MAX only..for buisness.

[hoffman2k]

my fear is they lock that to MAX only..for buisness.

Max still doesn't come with OSC support for Live, it just does OSC.
Be it Python, C++ or Max... There will be no official OSC support until they got a programmer working on that.

And there is nothing more to support than ST8 already does at this moment. Everything else is not accessible yet.

[fx23]

yeah im 3000 percent behind ST8, he is theeee maan
just tested the track colors he spoke me about recently added in api,
i could add them to my tweaked liveOsc tonight, very cool.(thx if ya read st8);

i hope you're right and that may come , let's wait and see..
anyway as long as ST8 is keeping the great job we do have osc already
he is more aware of api than any official reference

[hoffman2k]

he is more aware of api than any official reference

Yeah, there are a handful of people that know more about the API than is written. As far as I'm aware, only 2 people at Ableton know the API this well. One of them is a lead developer, the other one is responsible for about 95% of the python control scripts for the APC40/20, Launchpad, etc..
For OSC support, they'd need another python developer.

Griid (who makes an iPad OSC solution) already picked up ST8 as a developer. The main man behind Griid (Gareth) made Mu for the Lemur. Its a very small world in the API trenches, but just enough people to help push Ableton towards enabling more API features.

[Kodama]

Now Logic has this (at least for iOS device control). OSC and finally getting record modulation in session for native devices are my top wishes for Live, along with continual improvements to stability of course!

I love Ableton, but I don't think limited programmer resources is much of an excuse for a company as successful as Ableton when you see what someone like Jim from Five12 is doing by himself in his spare time with Numerology 3.

[hoffman2k]

Now Logic has this (at least for iOS device control). OSC and finally getting record modulation in session for native devices are my top wishes for Live, along with continual improvements to stability of course!

I love Ableton, but I don't think limited programmer resources is much of an excuse for a company as successful as Ableton when you see what someone like Jim from Five12 is doing by himself in his spare time with Numerology 3.

Ableton always moves slow. The mere fact that we're at version 8 with still not having session automation proves that. Always hoping it'll come in the next version.
Maybe it isn't lack of resources. But if they take this long for internal automation, I'm not sure if we'll see OSC automation that fast.
Lumping in those 2 things together is a mind-bender on its own.

Musik Messe is coming closer

[Kodama]

I can not conceive of any merit to waiting this long for recording modulation to session. I think they are not moving fast on recording modulation to clips in session for native devices (emphasis added to the precise wording - I'm not talking about automation!) because they are against implementing it in a manner such as is currently possible with 3rd party devices that support midi learn. Even though that would make many people happy, they apparently want something more complex. Paying for Ableton upgrades is similar in some ways to paying taxes, I don't mind paying - I just want to see it go to good stuff!
I hope to see some core features/improvement added in the next version, and not tacked on stuff, like automap (that has never been completed)!