D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Hedroom
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 pm

D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by Hedroom » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:37 pm

Hey everyone

Just a post to let you know that you can now download "Kapture", a "total recall" Max for Live snapshot device developed exclusively for Richie Hawtin's Plastikman Live show:

http://liine.net/griid/en/kapture.html

Like bouncing sounds from a delay to a filter delay, through a grain delay and then back into itself again? If your songs involve complex volume/send/return (or even feedback) combinations which are impractical to setup manually for each song this could really useful to you!

You can save and recall snapshots which will store level, send amounts, mute on/off for each track and will also remember the positions of parameters of the first device in tracks named in the accompanying .js script (just edit in a text editor). You could, for example, recall different 303 or drum machine settings for different tracks.

It's basically a preset saver for the whole of Ableton Live, rather than for a specific instrument/effect!

During performance you can recall these snapshots just by firing a clip with the same name in a specified "Trigger track". This means that all of these settings will be recalled when you fire the scene that needs them.

It's rough and ready, as it was custom built specifically for the Plastikman Live show (and not built as a product for sale to a whole world of customers with different set configurations) but I hope you'll enjoy playing with this and other free releases from the Liine Laboratory :D

Try it out and get your hands dirty - I look forward to seeing how you all get on with it.
Last edited by Hedroom on Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fx23
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by fx23 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:12 pm

yeah nice idea!

that's a feature i would love to see from a long time in live.

in usine there is such preset manager system, at any time you press store
and a button, an every single parameter of the patch, and subpatchs are stored and instantly recalled, it can stores hundreds of parameters
even all params of several vsts, fxs, vols pans ect at once!, no weird midi pgmchanges. ulra powerfull.

im trying to achieve the same system for live via liveOsc, but sadly liveApi limits make you can only recall 8 params.
i guess you met same limit via M4L.
if that could be extended to really all params, including subracks, that would be really awesome...

one thing to go even deeper im trying to acheive now is a smooth morph between two presets, to avoid tricky jumps whith ie sends/high feedback.
how did you proceed, is there a morphing time or is it instant recall (wich have advantages also by the way)...

simpli.cissimus
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by simpli.cissimus » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:00 pm

WoW !!!
No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

Bugayev
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by Bugayev » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:31 pm

fx23 wrote:im trying to achieve the same system for live via liveOsc, but sadly liveApi limits make you can only recall 8 params.
i guess you met same limit via M4L.
if that could be extended to really all params, including subracks, that would be really awesome...
Kapture is not limited to 8 parameters. You can grab all the parameters of the first device on whatever track/returns you want. You can scan all the parameters of the first device (whether native Ableton device or VST/AU) on as many tracks as you want.

Hedroom
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by Hedroom » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:42 pm

fx23 wrote:yeah nice idea!

that's a feature i would love to see from a long time in live.

in usine there is such preset manager system, at any time you press store
and a button, an every single parameter of the patch, and subpatchs are stored and instantly recalled, it can stores hundreds of parameters
even all params of several vsts, fxs, vols pans ect at once!, no weird midi pgmchanges. ulra powerfull.

im trying to achieve the same system for live via liveOsc, but sadly liveApi limits make you can only recall 8 params.
i guess you met same limit via M4L.
if that could be extended to really all params, including subracks, that would be really awesome...

one thing to go even deeper im trying to acheive now is a smooth morph between two presets, to avoid tricky jumps whith ie sends/high feedback.
how did you proceed, is there a morphing time or is it instant recall (wich have advantages also by the way)...
Thanks :D

Nick's already answered about the 8 params.

Re the smooth morph - that would definitely be very cool to see! Currently it's instant recall. Get stuck in and tweak!

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:58 pm

Nice, looks great! Mixed with Hoffman2k's snapshot morpher, this will be a great combo!

Question: Does it always affect mutes etc. Or can you leave out some things. For example, if I don't mutes to be affected by the snapshot recall, is there a way to exclude them? IS that doable in the js file?
Professional Shark Jumper.

Hedroom
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by Hedroom » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:54 pm

At the moment it always affects mutes.

It's not possible right now to selectively tell it which parameters to leave out. It would indeed be great to be able to do this independently for mutes or faders etc. It would definitely also be cool if you could do it on a per track basis. 8)

This should all be doable from the js file though.

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:58 pm

Cool, so if I wanted to permanently remove mutes from responding to the snapshots, I could probably find that part in the js file and delete it? Maybe I'll try to take a look.
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JuanSOLO
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by JuanSOLO » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:41 am

Where do you store the .js file?

Fairland
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by Fairland » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:59 am

It is possible to scan and store the second device on a track?

fx23
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by fx23 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:13 am

NICKBUGAYEV wrote: Kapture is not limited to 8 parameters. You can grab all the parameters of the first device on whatever track/returns you want. You can scan all the parameters of the first device (whether native Ableton device or VST/AU) on as many tracks as you want.
if i got a VST in a sub,sub,sub rack on my send channel A, even if the audio effect rack is the first one,
it will still be able to get all param? curious how this is possible since theorically totally impossible with current Api
wich is not able to access sub racks.

i understand i can work with all vst param if first device is the vst, as im currently doing with usine, can access 128 params
but not if the vst reverb is encapsuled in a rack, that itself is in a rack, that is itself in a rack Ie.
In this case it can't scan all the recursive patch but only the 8 on top params, that's what i referes to.

unless i missed some events recently, or is kapure based on a different technique that stores/reload the effect rack as a real abe preset?
mmmmm if so that's really clever, thats something i wanted to test... got to try this out ;)

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:39 am

fx23 wrote: if i got a VST in a sub,sub,sub rack on my send channel A, even if the audio effect rack is the first one,
it will still be able to get all param? curious how this is possible since theorically totally impossible with current Api
wich is not able to access sub racks.
First device in a track means the first rack if your devices are racked. You'd be able to access the macros of the master rack. So you'd have to assign from your VST through the racks to your main rack.
Professional Shark Jumper.

Bugayev
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by Bugayev » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:12 am

JuanSOLO wrote:Where do you store the .js file?
It's in the same folder as the Kapture Max for Live device. The js is called Kapture_v1.0.js

Nick
http://liine.net/forum <-- Check out the Liine forum!

outershpongolia
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by outershpongolia » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:30 am

So there's no way to do this for a rack on the master channel also?

fx23
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Re: D/L Liine Kapture -M4L device built for Plastikman Live show

Post by fx23 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:34 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote: First device in a track means the first rack if your devices are racked. You'd be able to access the macros of the master rack. So you'd have to assign from your VST through the racks to your main rack.
yep , so that's like i say, won't work if Vst is in subrack, unless you manually configured each needed params to
goes up to PARENT RACK. this can be confusing to say recall 'first device all params', cause as my reverb is in the rack,
i would espect recalling all params would include recalling reverbs params, as Ableton native presets do.
it would be more recall 'first PARENT device all parmas'. mind you we play with words, but understood together the thing.

in my case as im used with usine, I recall all Vst params even if they are in Nth iteration child subRack,
with the actual technique in live need to manually re_assign each single param to parent rack, wich is quite boring,
and time consumming as most VST have a huge list of params. I could directly use the Vst as first device but I would loose
my custom buid racks. Also im quite sure there is a 128 parameter limitation for parentRack, so it won't be possible
to recall 2 or 3 vsts full sets of parameters in a subrack 'all params' in any manner. in usine two clics and done.

that's why another technique if possible to explore would be to save/recall dynamically the AudioEffectRack 'real' preset.
(but no morph will be possible then..) via Api, it seems it's possible but I have no clues about that.. that would even theorically
allow even dynamically changing VSTs or effects. but I doubt it would react on the fly during live performances if changing so much.
hoever seems totally possible with fixed rack setup, where only parameters value would be stored.
That's one thing Abes should really inspire from usine, and create a 'Preset manager' system/deviceobject, that would
store/recall any childs parameters possible quasi realtime, that would make things much more easier,
so that if the device is on parent rack level, all subrack parameters would be recallable via simple Knob/midi/buttons. ideally natively.

of course other solution would be to access subrack with Api, so Max could handle the job. that's probably on the road for a later story....

still, this doesn't remove any charm fo Kapture..

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