Ableton Forum

Well, this is goodbye. As I said in this thread, L8's instability prompted me to give the competition another go and I've finally decided to switch to Logic.

It's a bit ironic that I switch now, now that L8 finally have become pretty stable.
And it's even more ironic that I basically switch because Live's too fun - and Logic isn't, not a bit.

Using Live's been something of a love affair, but a love affair with a brilliant piece of software, not with actually making any music.

With Logic Express being so cheap, I could well have kept Live too, but I know myself - I'd be turning to Live all the time, having loads of fun tweaking the crap out of just about any little sound snippet, but not finishing even a single goddamn song!

I feel like an alcoholist giving up drinking. From now on, I'm a recovering Abletonist.

I'm gonna miss Live, and you folks too of course, crazy as you are.

there's always Live 7.

please talk some sense into 3phase.

happy music making!

Do what you gotta do and good luck. I use Live AND Cubase (and sometimes Reaper and Renoise).

My workflow would suffer greatly if either Live or Cubase was taken out of the equation.

They both have their strengths and you can't have it both ways - people should stop wishing Live would become an all in one DAW and stop wishing that older traditional DAWS would somehow become super creative and fun with pattern sequencers and clip triggering and dinky flashing lights etc.

I use Live to sketch out and compose my ideas, it's much quicker and more inspiring than using a trad linear DAW like Logic/Cubase/Protools and Cubase for advanced audio/MIDI, vocal or instrument comping, and mixing.

If the track is a more simplistic, electronic instrumental type piece (or instrumental with samples/loops) I often stick just to Live. But Live is never likely to be Logic, and people shouldn't really want it to be. There are plenty of frustrating things about Logic/Cubase/Sonar/Protools/Studio One/DP/Reaper etc too.

Jack of all trades, master of none. Is this what you want Live to become ?

Tone Deft wrote:there's always Live 7.

Oh, I've been addicted since at least L5. Gotta get the poison all outta my system.

Tone Deft wrote:please talk some sense into 3phase.

Who do you think I am, some demi-god with super powers???

Tone Deft wrote:happy music making!

The same to you, you crazy bugger!

Tone Deft wrote:please talk some sense into 3phase.

Me, I can't sell a DAW to save my life.
I think you'll be back. One thing about Logic VS Live is after a while you get sick of all the planning you have to do in Logic.
I create at the same rate in Logic, Live and DP, mainly the only thing that will slow me down is getting caught up in trying to deal with a weakness in the DAW I'm using, and for that reason alone, I'm glad I use more than one.

Live does end up being a primary DAW for me though. At this point my main reason for DP is better hardware implementation(SysEx dumps) and multiple versions of the same song in the same open project.

leedsquietman wrote:Jack of all trades, master of none. Is this what you want Live to become ?

I can't recall saying anything like that, did I?

I'm switching because Live makes the process of music making so fun that it makes me forget all about the end result - the finished piece of music.

I don't enjoy using Logic one bit (but I don't dislike it either) and that has made me turn my focus to the music, rather than to the tool.

Paradoxically, Live's simply too good a tool for me to regard it as just a tool, as a means to an end. Logic, on the contrary, just feels like a pretty boring tool. That makes me focus on producing results instead of producing results.
I didn't expect that at all, but in hindsight, it's quite logical (sorry 'bout the pun!).

It's a personal decision, based on my attention deficit personality. It has nothing to do with me thinking Live is bad - I don't! I like it too much, that's the problem.

No offence but this is the biggest pile of shit I've ever read. You are dumping Live because it is too fun? You can't be serious. My suggestion would be that you won't produce any results if it bores you to tears doing it lol. Surely the whole point of a DAW is to be invisible?

James Fowler wrote:No offence but this is the biggest pile of shit I've ever read. You are dumping Live because it is too fun? You can't be serious. My suggestion would be that you won't produce any results if it bores you to tears doing it lol. Surely the whole point of a DAW is to be invisible?

Did I say it bored me to tears?

I'm not sure if the point of a DAW is to be invisible, not for everyone, but yes, for me it's a point. And for me Live isn't. For me, Live in itself is so fun, I just fiddle around with it instead of making music. Logic on the other hand is just a tool, no more exciting than a screwdriver is to a mechanic.

Oh, and fuck off.

slirak wrote:It's a bit ironic that I switch now, now that L8 finally have become pretty stable.
And it's even more ironic that I basically switch because Live's too fun - and Logic isn't, not a bit.

ironic - meh. deliberate might be a better word. you are talking about... yourself after all, not some long gone poet.

ShelLuser wrote:

Finally.. It has been said, it has been addressed AND we have finally some confirmation that Live is indeed an addictive substance. I feel so good now

Still; couldn't you have joined the AA (Ableton Anonymous) or ALA (Ableton Live Anonymous) instead ?

Oh well, it could have been a lot worse; if you'd ever have discovered Max for Live you might have gotten some serious extra addictive problems to cope with


EDIT/PS: And good luck of course on your new environment, sorry to see you leave though.

Hehe, when MFL was announced, I was so excited, I almost wet my pants. I then realized that buying it would probably be the end of my music making, so I didn't dare. I get lost in my tools, that's my problem. Well, one of my problems...

H20nly wrote:

slirak wrote:It's a bit ironic that I switch now, now that L8 finally have become pretty stable.
And it's even more ironic that I basically switch because Live's too fun - and Logic isn't, not a bit.

ironic - meh. deliberate might be a better word. you are talking about... yourself after all, not some long gone poet.

Well, I'm sure you'll be referring to me as the long gone poet of this forum when I'm gone.

But honestly, I'm not sure what you're saying? (Not sarcasm or anything, I'm interested, really.)

i'm saying i don't really see the irony. you are making a choice to use Logic instead of Live. its not ironic when i eat corn flakes instead of chex. if anything, what you're saying is the equivalent of... i waited in line for hours to get to the concert and right when i got to the ticket booth i changed my mind and decided to go to the movies instead. enjoy the show, by all means, but its not some bizarre twist of fate, its a conscious decision to do something different.

meantime, i'm gonna enjoy Live 8.2.1
all this waiting was... well it was waiting, but now Live just works (at last). i'll be damned if i'm gonna quit at this point.

Machinesworking wrote:I think you'll be back.

Not unlikely. After all, I'm sitting here, smoking a cigarette. And I stopped smoking ten years ago. And twelve years ago. And 17 years ago. And...

Machinesworking wrote:One thing about Logic VS Live is after a while you get sick of all the planning you have to do in Logic.

I certainly see what you mean, but thing is, I don't have the patience to do all that planning. Setting up a complex environment just to do some MIDI processing that I could've done in ten seconds with Live? Nah, I'll just skip that and leave the bloody part as it is instead. And get on with the music!

Machinesworking wrote:...the only thing that will slow me down is getting caught up in trying to deal with a weakness in the DAW I'm using, and for that reason alone, I'm glad I use more than one.

I think this is a fundamental difference between what we could call different styles of creativity. Me, I get more creative the fewer tools I have. And the simpler they are. If I have options, I can't help trying them all. But some people get more creative the more options they have. Then there's the lucky few that are so goal oriented that it doesn't really matter, they'll get to their end results no matter what tools they have. How I envy those lucky bastards!

hey slirak good luck with logic and what you do, I think logic has allot of workflow enhancements that make it fun, especially if you're the type that makes a zillion alternate takes in your process
and welcome back in advance