Looking for a wavetable synth.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Dr. Fluffenstein
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Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by Dr. Fluffenstein » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:47 pm

I'm looking for a wavetable softsynth that I can use for synthesizing percussion and drums out of single cycle waveforms. The main feature I'm looking for is the ability to have complex envelope shapes like on the waldorf attack, the kind that have a graphic representation instead of just knobs/sliders. Being able to stack multiple pitch envelopes would be a plus. I've been using simpler for this, but it falls short in the envelope shape department.Can anyone please point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

UncleAge
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by UncleAge » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:54 pm


UncleAge
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by UncleAge » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:56 pm

And if you don't need to stack multiple pitch envelopes then give Rapture a spin.

Both SynthMaster and Rapture have MSEG's so you can roll your own.

33tetragammon
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by 33tetragammon » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:08 pm

my personal favorites :

Native Instruments Absynth 5 : envelopes and endless modulation options galore,awesome!

2nd runner-up : U-He Zebra 2,also amazing!
Last edited by 33tetragammon on Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

UncleAge
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by UncleAge » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:12 pm

I forgot to add Alchemy.
33tetragammon wrote:u-he Zebra
Will it take a raw single-cycle wav or do you need that utility that one of the users made to reformat it?

33tetragammon
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by 33tetragammon » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:17 pm

UncleAge wrote:I forgot to add Alchemy.
33tetragammon wrote:u-he Zebra
Will it take a raw single-cycle wav or do you need that utility that one of the users made to reformat it?
yes,you need that utility to do that,it's called Wav2zebra if i'm not mistaken.there's a link somewhere on the KVR forum.

Absynth 5 doesn't need that,as you can import the first 1024 samples of a wav-file,and it converts that to a wavetable.
drawing waveforms in Absynth really works well imo,plus the wavemorphing is dope.

dum
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by dum » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:00 pm

Future Audio Workshop: Circle
http://www.bestservice.de/found.asp/circle/circle/en <--special offer while stocks last
http://www.futureaudioworkshop.com


Well worth your attention while it's selling for $80 inclusive of postage.
It uses single cycles 2048 samples in length. (Zebra is 128, if I'm not mistaken...although I think it scans through 16 cells/cycles per oscillator which = 2048...)
You use a separate generator for creating the circle format files, it's available freely on their website so you can try importing samples whilst demoing. (you can use cycles longer than 2048...)

It doesn't have complex envelopes per se, but you can use a combination of vanilla envelopes, free-rate\syncd modulation sequencers, morphing free-rate/syncd lfos, and blended imported wavecycles acting as lfos .... 5 modulators available at any one time, or up to 8 when you use low frequency wavecycle oscillators as lfos.

there's also some interesting wavecycle blending opportunities that can be modulated, and if you get into it the cross modulation capabilities are dope.

Dunno if it's your best bet for your needs, but it's worth demoing whilst it's available for $80 methinks. Check out the drum presets, it's not multi-timbral either so make sure you set the voice count to 1 and use multiple instances for extra drum sounds.
Last edited by dum on Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

Dr. Fluffenstein
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by Dr. Fluffenstein » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:26 pm

Thanks for the recommendations everyone. Are there any free options available? I'd like to give this method a test run before I actually buy anything. I'm not really looking for a full-blown synth like zebra or massive, that would be overkill. Just something simple to apply envelopes to waveforms. Any recommendations for samplers with envelope shaping that I can load waveform samples into? (Something that's basically similar to simpler, but with multiple shape-able envelopes)

dum
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by dum » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:31 pm

http://vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php

see if you like that...if you're on windows and ps there's no support,,,
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

crofter
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by crofter » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:32 pm

Give this a go,free,
http://www.amvst.com/node/180
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leedsquietman
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by leedsquietman » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:57 pm

The Waldorf PPG v3.0 should be interesting when released, it's in beta stage now.

If you like Wavetable type synthesis Waldorf's Largo (a software representation of Blofeld) is also a good synth, I demoed it for 30 days a while back and put it to good use in some tracks, but couldn't afford to buy it after the trial period. Not everyone agrees, but I found it sufficiently different to Zebra, Alchemy, Massive, Korg Legacy etc with their wavetable sounds to be useful.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

UncleAge
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by UncleAge » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:19 pm

Dr. Fluffenstein wrote: Any recommendations for samplers with envelope shaping that I can load waveform samples into? (Something that's basically similar to simpler, but with multiple shape-able envelopes)
Well Sampler has a graphical pitch envelope, if that's a requirement for you. However, I wouldn't know of too many options for multiple (stackable) pitch envelopes. Basically, if running in parallel, you would be trying to take the pitch in two different directions at once, no?

Dr. Fluffenstein
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by Dr. Fluffenstein » Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:54 am

UncleAge wrote:
Dr. Fluffenstein wrote: Any recommendations for samplers with envelope shaping that I can load waveform samples into? (Something that's basically similar to simpler, but with multiple shape-able envelopes)
Well Sampler has a graphical pitch envelope, if that's a requirement for you. However, I wouldn't know of too many options for multiple (stackable) pitch envelopes. Basically, if running in parallel, you would be trying to take the pitch in two different directions at once, no?
Not in parallel, in series, just couldn't find the right word so I used 'stacked'. Imagine you take a sine and apply a pitch envelope to it. Then the output after the envelope goes through a second pitch envelope, and so on. Guess you could use one pitch envelope for all of it, but unless there are a lot of envelope editing points it won't be the same (and tweaking that many points would be tedious). The main reason I want multiple pitch envelopes is to make decent kick drums from sine waves the way you would in audobe audition. I've heard some nice kicks made in audition using only a sine wave (which came as a bit of a surprise to me), but I don't own it so I was looking for a vst alternative for making drums from scratch.

UncleAge
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by UncleAge » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:25 am

Dr. Fluffenstein wrote:
UncleAge wrote:
Dr. Fluffenstein wrote: Any recommendations for samplers with envelope shaping that I can load waveform samples into? (Something that's basically similar to simpler, but with multiple shape-able envelopes)
Well Sampler has a graphical pitch envelope, if that's a requirement for you. However, I wouldn't know of too many options for multiple (stackable) pitch envelopes. Basically, if running in parallel, you would be trying to take the pitch in two different directions at once, no?
Not in parallel, in series, just couldn't find the right word so I used 'stacked'. Imagine you take a sine and apply a pitch envelope to it. Then the output after the envelope goes through a second pitch envelope, and so on. Guess you could use one pitch envelope for all of it, but unless there are a lot of envelope editing points it won't be the same (and tweaking that many points would be tedious). The main reason I want multiple pitch envelopes is to make decent kick drums from sine waves the way you would in audobe audition. I've heard some nice kicks made in audition using only a sine wave (which came as a bit of a surprise to me), but I don't own it so I was looking for a vst alternative for making drums from scratch.
I'm not that familiar with doing it that way. I'll admit I have more to learn. However, I would guess that you would need to layer two sounds sources, each with it's own pitch envelope and various filters and such, in order to achieve that result. This is versus using on sine wave and multiple pitch envelopes. Once again, I'm not an authority on all the variations on a theme.

In the meanwhile, until some one else comes along that can point you in a different direction, check out the following thread.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... highlight=

And a couple of Nick's free videos:
http://www.youtube.com/oubliettezombie# ... qPpVjqO4eI

As always, ymmv...

33tetragammon
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Re: Looking for a wavetable synth.

Post by 33tetragammon » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:02 am

Dr. Fluffenstein wrote:
UncleAge wrote:
Dr. Fluffenstein wrote: Any recommendations for samplers with envelope shaping that I can load waveform samples into? (Something that's basically similar to simpler, but with multiple shape-able envelopes)
Well Sampler has a graphical pitch envelope, if that's a requirement for you. However, I wouldn't know of too many options for multiple (stackable) pitch envelopes. Basically, if running in parallel, you would be trying to take the pitch in two different directions at once, no?
Not in parallel, in series, just couldn't find the right word so I used 'stacked'. Imagine you take a sine and apply a pitch envelope to it. Then the output after the envelope goes through a second pitch envelope, and so on. Guess you could use one pitch envelope for all of it, but unless there are a lot of envelope editing points it won't be the same (and tweaking that many points would be tedious). The main reason I want multiple pitch envelopes is to make decent kick drums from sine waves the way you would in audobe audition. I've heard some nice kicks made in audition using only a sine wave (which came as a bit of a surprise to me), but I don't own it so I was looking for a vst alternative for making drums from scratch.
like i mentioned before,try out Absynth 5.
every envelope can have up to 64 breakpoints,and every breakpoint's time/amp is also modulatable via Absynth's macro controls,velocity and other sources.
i haven't found a softsynth yet that allows you do do individual envelope breakpoint modulation.it's a really mindblowing feature.
plus you have different envelope types : release,sustain,loop,retrigger(good for rhythmic stuff),control driven(via macro controls etc),link(essentially this slaves the selected one to another selectable master envelope).its sample jump envelopes also are very good for wavesequencing-like stuff.

every envelope can also have its own individual lfo incorporated in it,and every breakpoint can have a different lfo depth setting.
also,every envelope breakpoint can be set to either slope or step.the latter turns it into a (sort of) stepsequencer........

yes,deep s&%t,i know.
but amazing nonetheless............

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