Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Ben_Binary
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by Ben_Binary » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:41 am

necho wrote:Reaper beats the shit out of Live for tracking and mixing.

Live beats the shit out of Reaper for creative experimentation, sound mangling, and performance (of course).

Reaper is a tape deck and mixer; Live is a sampler/sequencer/instrument.

Simples.
what he said.
soundcloud Live 9 & Push / Reaper / Octatrack / Rytm / MicroBrute / Nord Modular G1 & G2 / Waldorf Rack Attack / Juno 60 / Monotron & Duo / SeratoDJ / Komplete 9 / OhmForce

Sly One
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by Sly One » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:57 pm

necho wrote:Reaper beats the shit out of Live for tracking and mixing.

Live beats the shit out of Reaper for creative experimentation, sound mangling, and performance (of course).

Reaper is a tape deck and mixer; Live is a sampler/sequencer/instrument.

Simples.
Yep, agreed. I've been playing around with Reaper having heard so many good things about it, and have given it enough time to start evaluating it for a few different purposes. I've decided not to switch to it for writing music for lots of small reasons:

- Live's ability to keep running without any glitching, even when adding seriously heavyweight plugins like Virus TI, Omnisphere, Aether or Play libraries.
- Reaper seems to have far more issues with VSTs. I've found several already (in which I've invested a LOT of money) that are just unusable.
- Live's MIDI clip length and quantisation halving/doubling shortcuts. I never realised how much I used them and relied on them until I started trying to write loops in Reaper. It's a simple thing - muck around with the groove in realtime by taking a 2 bar loop and changing it so Live loops a single bar section of that clip starting at 1.1. Two keystrokes in Live.
- Reaper lacks Live's totally flexible clip-based automation - you can only do clip based automation for mixer settings (volume, pan)
- I found several strange and intermittent bugs in the track automation editing in Reaper.

However, I am very much attracted to the general level of stability, customisability and flexibility of Reaper, so it's still a possible for me as a mixing/tracking solution. For that, it walks all over Cubase and Protools already, and only really seems to be losing out to Logic at the moment because of Logic's impressive array of high-quality plugins.

Leon Tricker
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by Leon Tricker » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:29 pm

sporkles wrote:If Live has too many DAW features — what is it about those features that stops you from simply not using them? — stay in Session view, FFS! And if Live feels "bloated" — what's stopping you from using the ... Launchpad Edition :?:
This is missing the point for me. I can (and do) ignore a lot of the DAW type functions, instruments, and sample content in Live. But the point is that all the time Ableton are developing these extras they aren't developing session view and they aren't developing the live performance aspect of Live.

So yes I can ignore the DAW features, but I can't ignore the lack of development in the parts of the programme that are most important to me.

jbone1313
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by jbone1313 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:03 pm

Reaper is a great program, as is Live. I've found Reaper's MIDI timing to be somewhat inaccurate--particularly with loop-recording. That has been discussed at length on the Reaper forum. I can't imagine composing loop-based music in Reaper.

Has anyone here tried to do loop recording/MIDI overdubs in Reaper? You might immediately see what I'm talking about...

The reason I bring that up is I'd like to know if anyone here observes that, and what they think and/or how they handle it...

silveriofunk
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by silveriofunk » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:24 pm

i seriously do not think live is bloated...

but i'd like them to spend some more time on the session view....

joshspoon
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by joshspoon » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:11 pm

Live is great. Reaper is great (for the time I've been using it) I like how I can easily do multi-takes and not have drag it to my session view of a track. :D Reaper isn't bloated currently cause it's the equivalent weight to an 8 year old. Let's see if he starts drinking cokes and playing WOW, if you get my analogy.

But both are good for many reasons. I don't see an argument. I use live cause the workflow makes sense to me. One of my friends uses Reason and that thing drives me crazy.

Remember it's the music not the tools. There is some guy in Africa who has a stick with two strings on it and a cow hide on a hollow tree stump, who could make cooler music then most of us.

Be good, write good music.
Have Fun,

Josh Weatherspoon aka Josh Spoon
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dsu
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by dsu » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:18 pm

Since I started Live with 8.1, I can't feel nostlagic for the past and yes Live has some annoying behaviors but for composition I love sessions view. When working on a tune, I move between session and arrange view getting the best of both worlds. And I love the goodies in Suite.

I also have 2 Reaper license one on a Windows Desktop and one my Mac along with Live. During rehersal, I'm playing back the Live set, playing live instruments and external synths. Reaper is recording the whole thing through the built-in microphones. I bring the Reaper recording into Session view to continue refining the song. When the complexity of the piece creates problems in Live I can import into Reaper although usually what I should do is delete tracks to make the song better.

So I don't think Live is bloated.

Given Reapers price point $60 and Live Suite $700 I can't imagine Reaper getting bloated very quickly.

Cheers

hacktheplanet
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by hacktheplanet » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:55 pm

My band has been recording our album using Live only.

One of the things that makes it to easy is when we are recording a take, and fuck a little tiny note up. Whoever is recording just continues on with the take until the end. Then we can go back, and punch in a new part to replace the mistake on different channels. As long as we stay with the click, it's crazy easy to just click and drag stuff around. Plus with the non-destructiveness of it all, it's super easy to blend parts together. So I don't really get it when people say "Live sucks for tracking!" Yeah, tracking with Live is a little different, but it's sooooo easy and intuitive once you get the hang of it and develop a solid workflow. I prefer tracking with Live to most other DAWs I've used.
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sailordrift
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by sailordrift » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:04 pm

mholloway wrote:Show me Reaper's Session View and maybe I'd care.

-M

bingo, it is because of Session View that I've never even considered "touching" another DAW, for me there is no reason to switch at all to any other program available. I wouldn't even know what to do

Ben_Binary
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by Ben_Binary » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:33 am

joshspoon wrote:
Remember it's the music not the tools. There is some guy in ________ who has a stick with two strings on it and an animal hide on a hollow tree stump, who could make cooler music then most of us.

Be good, write good music.

Yep :)
soundcloud Live 9 & Push / Reaper / Octatrack / Rytm / MicroBrute / Nord Modular G1 & G2 / Waldorf Rack Attack / Juno 60 / Monotron & Duo / SeratoDJ / Komplete 9 / OhmForce

joeyfivecents
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by joeyfivecents » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:22 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote:
mholloway wrote:Show me Reaper's Session View and maybe I'd care.

-M
Exactly. Show me a session view in any other DAW...

I used to think that Logic would eventually get one and that would be the day I stopped using Live, but it never happened and lots of goodies for live like the APC and ipad apps have also cemented the Session View in Live as the unbeatable feature.
What iPad apps are you using with Live? Just curious
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WaveRider
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by WaveRider » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:52 am

Reaper is so bloated with menus it's incredible.

Live 8 has all I need to record in 16 tracks, mix and master... or I can use it live as a music instrument. Reaper offers only linear thinking. Live is way beyond that. :roll:

H20nly
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by H20nly » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:35 am

/THREAD
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

simpli.cissimus
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by simpli.cissimus » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:03 pm

If you don't like Live, try Death...!!! :wink:
No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

dave999z
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Re: Compared to Reaper Live feels SO bloated!

Post by dave999z » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:28 pm

Reaper is only $40 currently. And that includes a free update to Reaper 4 when i comes out.

That price is pretty awesome. Especially if you do want a linear DAW to supplement Live for some purposes (I've never really found Live's arrangement view to be as useful as the standard Cubase/Logic-style view for some purposes). It costs 1/10 as much as Logic or PT9.

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