What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
jkung
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:09 am

What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by jkung » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:51 am

Quick question: I see the greyed out warp markers are also moveable. what does that do and in what instances would you use it?

it seems as if it moves the entire song disregarding other warp markers. is this a way to get your song with the BPM as close as possible before using the yellow warp markers for fine tuning?

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by 3phase » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:30 am

no.. they are not moveable .. you just can erase them and add a new one at another position..
it sometimes just looks like that you can move them when no warp markers are set..than the whole audio file gets stretched..
They mark the points where the beat warp engine is taking the slice.. and that are the points where quantisation is applyed to when beeing in transient beat warp mode..



the yellow ones are your elastic audio markers to squash your audiofiles around the timeline..
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Willyum
Posts: 1194
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 6:17 am
Location: Jamaica, Queens

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by Willyum » Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:01 am

3phase wrote:no.. they are not moveable .. you just can erase them and add a new one at another position..
That's not correct, they are both movable. But further more, they are both important in making sure your clip sounds proper (if using warp in beats mode).

For a good example of this, load up a sample/clip, use something with decent transients so you can hear what is going on (any breakbeat will do). set a 1 bar loop so you can hear the changes you will make. Slow down the tempo to like 30bpm so you can hear what the warp engine is actually doing to your clip.

Delete all the warp markers except the one at the beginning and the end of your 1 bar loop. To move transients, Hold down shift before clicking the mouse on the transient, then drag the transient to desired location..

Look at your transient (grey) markers and make sure they all look like they are at the beginning of each new sound. Turn the 'Preserve' to transient, and the 'transient loop mode' to Off. You will hear the clip being played the way a Rex machine would play it, as just chopped samples.
Now move all the transient markers away from the beginning of each sound toward the middle of each sound and you will hear how different the loop sounds. In the 'preserve' box and the 'Transient loop mode' box just below it... change the settings to hear how each mode messes with your clip.... Experiment with these settings.

At these slow speeds, you can hear what is actually going on, but at regular speed you will just perceive that something may be wrong, but don't know what it is. This is part of high end warping.

o0o
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by o0o » Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:15 am

^^ I don't understand are you saying that you have to warp twice, once in grey and once in yellow?
so what is each for?
rabbit

jkung
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:09 am

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by jkung » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:34 pm

So if my understanding is correct. this is essentially time stretching the entire track. SO if i use the grey markers without double clicking somewhere near the end of the song, then warp it to the correct bar, the ENTIRE track is then more on beat. With the yellow markers, i can then go fine tune. i think this thread : http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=11736 is kinda close to what i am saying right?

as to the above advanced technique, i will have to try that sometime to mess with the timing. it sounds pretty cool actually. it probably will sound different than the groove pool.

davepermen
Posts: 2198
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by davepermen » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:55 pm

yes, they are no "warp-point" where the audio gets stretched around. so you move the whole track.

if you know traktor and it's beatgrids, it's essentially how i use those markers. i place a start-marker (a real yellow warp marker) at the first on-beat grey marker. then i set 1.1.1 to there, and warp straight. then i adjust the LAST onbeat transient marker (those grey ones) to be exactly on the last beat (the last full beat, so always a x.x.1 one, not, say, 192.1.4 (there could be some swing on those). the result: very quick 100% warped tracks for anythign that needs no tempo-adjust during the track. if it needs that, i'll use warpmarkers there, obviously.

if i would instead create a yellow warp marker at the end, and move the beat around there, the stuff BEHIND the yellow warp marker would not adjust it's tempo. say there would be some 32 bars long piano loop as a fadeout. it would not be in time anymore.
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

jkung
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:09 am

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by jkung » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:47 pm

ok great. this seems so much faster than going through the track with yellow warp markers. I wonder why all the tutorials I see tell you to do the yellow marker throughout the track method.

just a last question, do you add a final yellow warp marker at the end of the track?

davepermen
Posts: 2198
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by davepermen » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:21 pm

no.

for most tracks, there's just one yellow warp marker: at the first beat (might not be the beginning btw. same applies, without any other warpmarkers, and just adjusting the transient markers (the grey ones), the track gets the same speed everywhere).
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

Willyum
Posts: 1194
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 6:17 am
Location: Jamaica, Queens

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by Willyum » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:57 pm

o0o wrote:^^ I don't understand are you saying that you have to warp twice, once in grey and once in yellow?
so what is each for?
No, the yellow markers actually do the warp... the grey markers can be thought of as 'pause' or 'start' points within the timing of the clip. If the clip is playing at regular tempo of the clip, and not warped, there will be nothing done. But if the track is faster or slower then the clips tempo, the grey markers preserve the transient start points so that your sound is cleaner WHILE warping.

You could think if the grey markers as a cleanup tool for the warping that you've done.

o0o
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by o0o » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:35 pm

it sounds like willyum that you and dave are saying the opposite thing, but in any case I understand what both of you is saying and understand warp markers better. thank you this was an important lesson.
rabbit

dna598
Posts: 855
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:42 am

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by dna598 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:03 pm

3phase wrote:no.. they are not moveable .. you just can erase them and add a new one at another position..
WOW...Epic Epic fail Truly Epic. I got no beef man, but seriously...time to get the info view up again.
ctrl + left/right = select transient

ctrl + shift + left/right = select between transients

ctrl + space = play selection

davepermen
Posts: 2198
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by davepermen » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:14 pm

o0o wrote:it sounds like willyum that you and dave are saying the opposite thing, but in any case I understand what both of you is saying and understand warp markers better. thank you this was an important lesson.
no we don't oppose each other. i forgot about the transient-feature when warping.

you can move transients around, and you can adjust overall tempo by moving them. you can't "warp" (that means adjust tempo differently before and after the warpmarker).

+ the transient markers are there to highlight the transients in the audio, so the actual warping-algorithm can use that knowledge to warp with better audio quality.
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

H20nly
Posts: 15844
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by H20nly » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:10 am

bookmarked.

8)
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

jkung
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:09 am

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by jkung » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:59 am

yeah great stuff. i was always using the grey markers anyway to warp and i thought it was better but i just didn't know why. i still do add yellow markers as just visual markers for my breakdowns and what not.

if you could split clips based on yellow warp markers that would be awesome too. maybe you can do that but i havent gotten deep enough in the program.

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: What does Warping with Grey NOT YELLOW makers do?

Post by 3phase » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:19 am

dna598 wrote:
3phase wrote:no.. they are not moveable .. you just can erase them and add a new one at another position..
WOW...Epic Epic fail Truly Epic. I got no beef man, but seriously...time to get the info view up again.
epic what? ts john boy.... better try again..
you cab grab them but they dont move indepnedent from the rest of the file.. and the dont move at all when warp markers are set..

maybe it looks like because the program creates a warp marker than.. anyway the main question was what they are for..

and that got answered
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Post Reply