Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Post Reply
dum
Posts: 2678
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:51 pm

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by dum » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:37 pm

Leon Tricker wrote:Live 9 +
A new dedicated controller from Akai / Novation +
Some tricks borrowed from LPC-Live +
Revamped Drum Racks
+ a consistently built, and increasing reputation for releasing buggy,crashy,unstable software LONG before it's ready
+ a glacial if not non-existent response to years old and hugely popular feature requests
+ a history of never adding to the feature set without charging for it, or just straight up waiting for the next paid update
= Maschine's Bitch.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

ze2be
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:17 am
Location: Mos Eisley

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by ze2be » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:46 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:While I support your idea fully, I still think it might be you who's not fully getting it. Your alternative is a customization that requires 2 pieces of hardware, an APC and an ipad, the cost of which is already double Maschine. It's also two pieces of gear to accomplish what one does. And I'm not so sure that you'd be able to navigate the file browser from the ipad app. Not to mention there would still be no velocity sensitive drum pads anywhere. So the whole workflow of using a single device and not even need to interact with the computer sort of gets killed as well as decreased playability.

But I'm sure what you're tlking about would be cool too, especially for people with an ipad and apc who don't have maschine. Competition and options are good.
I do get the price issue! No question about that. But my point is that function vise, you could get close. And BTW I can already navigate the file browser from the APC with Native Kontrol. You will not need to view the computer screen, just like maschine. However text feedback would require itouch hardware with a custom App. My second point is: because of the first point, they might very well consider to create a new hardware + software system, based on these facts, and Maschine 1.6 as well. Everyone except Ableton seems to be on the iOS lately. They might be cooking something, if their not occupied with The Bridge 2.0 that is. :P

And.. im thinking about trading my Virus Ti Snow for Maschine. Might be worth it. But ill give evolution a few more months.. Im on the fence with a huge bucket of popcorn. 8)
? ? ? ? ?

abluesky
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:08 pm

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by abluesky » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:49 pm

Leon Tricker wrote:Live 9 +
A new dedicated controller from Akai / Novation +
Some tricks borrowed from LPC-Live +
Revamped Drum Racks =

Ableton's Maschine Killer!

I think Ableton's going to have to come up with a way to provide the kind of hardware-software integration that MASCHINE has to be a killer. Looking over at the videos on NI's site, the workflow is very, very fast with the controller.

ze2be
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:17 am
Location: Mos Eisley

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by ze2be » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:52 pm

abluesky wrote:
delicioso wrote:This isn't meant to replace the DAW - though in some cases it will for some folks, but yet give users another truly AMAZING option without depending on the DAW so much, for a lot of our productions. What this 1.6 update does though is make Maschine a viable alternative to Ableton Live's session view.

Re alternative to Live's Session View - I think this might be true with the inclusion of Kore *if* kore permits the kind of routings already possible with Live. If it does or if such routings are not needed by the user, then Maschine together with any other DAW would provide a viable Live alternative.
It might actually be what we need while waiting for the Live 10 (or whatever) rewrite. That should take at least 2 - 3 years. Plus the 3rd year will be full of bugs. In the mean time, we could enjoy clip session automation in Maschine, replacing/integrating into Session inside live.. ;)
? ? ? ? ?

condra
Posts: 2753
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:03 pm
Location: Dublin
Contact:

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by condra » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:06 am

ze2be wrote:8O Wow. OK, now im sold too.

It will be interesting to see if this will affect Abletons work. (Abes if you read this: whatever you do, please don't force release it premature) Theres rumor about a new dedicated controller from AKAI. But it would be hard to beat Maschine on integration and workflow at this point..

Alright, im saving up for... something!
yeah

Ben_Binary
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:08 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by Ben_Binary » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:50 am

condra wrote:
ze2be wrote:8O Wow. OK, now im sold too.

It will be interesting to see if this will affect Abletons work. (Abes if you read this: whatever you do, please don't force release it premature) Theres rumor about a new dedicated controller from AKAI. But it would be hard to beat Maschine on integration and workflow at this point..

Alright, im saving up for... something!
yeah
and dont make it necessary to buy M4L to reach its marketed potential...
soundcloud Live 9 & Push / Reaper / Octatrack / Rytm / MicroBrute / Nord Modular G1 & G2 / Waldorf Rack Attack / Juno 60 / Monotron & Duo / SeratoDJ / Komplete 9 / OhmForce

bridgealantee
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:14 am
Contact:

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by bridgealantee » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:26 am

The real question is can you use vst's within maschine while using maschine AS a vst. That would be pretty dope. Might have to be me a maschine.

Winterpark
Posts: 1671
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:59 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by Winterpark » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:40 am

bridgealantee wrote:The real question is can you use vst's within maschine while using maschine AS a vst. That would be pretty dope. Might have to be me a maschine.
i asked that same Question over at the NI forums, and they seem to think that yes, it should do that... because apparently Kore does the same thing.
web | fb | sc | twt | bc

Machinesworking
Posts: 11105
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:26 am

@bridgealantee
I'm willing to bet you can. That, is exactly what Kore does, hosts VST/AUs. Makes it easy to build a set of live instruments to play live without taking all your resources.

My burning question is what are they going to do with Kore now that Maschine can host VSTs? Is Kore going to get full DAW capabilities and NI keeps the pattern based drum machine style sequencing in Maschine? One thing a guy I met a while ago who was a product specialist for both NI and Ableton said was pretty interesting, we were talking about how NI and Ableton weren't at each others throats as much as they used to be, and he flatly stated that things were great, and should be until NI introduces a DAW.

dum
Posts: 2678
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:51 pm

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by dum » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:59 am

vsts hosting vsts is no big deal, maschine is gonna do that too guaranteed. That's a non-issue.

I don't own Kore but isn't it just a VST host and universal preset manager...or am I missing something ? Don't see why maschine is gonna have any effect on that ?

Curios...when were ableton and ni at each other's throats ?
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11105
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:48 am

@dum,
Kore is far more than that, but I guess you could call it that. The touch sensitive knobs use track automation at 500 steps VS 128 in MIDI, there's simple MIDI file players, step sequencers and arps in Kore already, basically everything is in place for Kore to get A full on Sequencer IMO. Only thing missing is an actual full on audio/MIDI arrangement type environment. Just thinking out loud here (as if that's unusual), but it's also very possible that NI release a Record style sequencer where Kore and Maschine are add ons that give proprietary functionality. This actually would make perfect sense, in that between Kore, Maschine and Reactor you would have everything except straight audio tracks, and if NI did it themselves they could add the hooks for Reactor and Kore/Maschine to integrate at some ridiculous level.

You're aware that the core of Ableton engineers used to work for NI right? well when I first joined here, employees posting in threads would sometimes remark about how they valued stability over introducing products to early like other german developers, and it was obvious they were talking about NI, Reactor and Kontakt had some stability issues at that point.
(This is of course ironic as hell now, years later when NI kit is essentially stable and 8 has had so many issues)

There's certainly a difference of approach when it comes to product development, just look at the VAST difference between Sampler and Kontakt. In many ways I prefer NI's approach, (seriously, I will never get why anybody would prefer Sampler?), though Ableton mostly aren't bridge burning path cutters, and I mean that in a good way. Guitar Rig 4 lost the ability to save a Preset Attribute (bank) list of presets with your DAW, so if you change presets it jumps to the folder on your HD containing every single freaking preset numbers them in some odd way and then doesn't work, until you select the bank sitting in GR4's browser.... bleh, sorry about the rant, but it's frustrating as fuck, and I'm sure it's due to NI attempting to get all their plugs to adopt the Kore browser format. :evil:

dum
Posts: 2678
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:51 pm

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by dum » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:47 am

Machinesworking wrote:You're aware that the core of Ableton engineers used to work for NI right? well when I first joined here, employees posting in threads would sometimes remark about how they valued stability over introducing products to early like other german developers, and it was obvious they were talking about NI, Reactor and Kontakt had some stability issues at that point.
classy. but that would be ableton 'at ni's throat'. you said they were at each other though... so did NI reciprocate ?

I was aware that behles worked with them, how many more are there ? when you say core do you mean that in the strictest sense of the word ? I often wonder about the bitwig guys. They're just gonna make an announcement one day that will blow us away. I've convinced myself they were the best talent at ableton for some reason. Namely that crashes & instability seemed to become bigger issues after they left, might just be a coincidence.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

condra
Posts: 2753
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:03 pm
Location: Dublin
Contact:

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by condra » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:18 pm

I have total faith in Abletons ability to innovate and create exciting and fun ways to mess with music. Look at how stagnant the likes of Cakewalk and Steinberg were for so long.

With the Launchpad, APC and MFL, Live already has potential to go way beyond Maschine, but it's a matter of bringing everything together in an elegant, "non hacky" way.

ze2be
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:17 am
Location: Mos Eisley

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by ze2be » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:31 pm

condra wrote:I have total faith in Abletons ability to innovate and create exciting and fun ways to mess with music. Look at how stagnant the likes of Cakewalk and Steinberg were for so long.

With the Launchpad, APC and MFL, Live already has potential to go way beyond Maschine, but it's a matter of bringing everything together in an elegant, "non hacky" way.
Exactly. And Id rather wait then getting a rushed product. But, and if they go that way, it could be nice to get an official plan release, in good time before the actual product release. This makes it easier for planing economicaly and technicaly for the end users. For instance I would have no problem filling the gap with Maschine, if the wait would be a couple of years. If its less then a year, I would probably stick to what I got: APC, and prepare my workflow towards this new thing. Ive spend so much time already creating workflow enhancing racks and templates for the APC. It would be sad if all that work ends up in vain.
? ? ? ? ?

bridgealantee
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:14 am
Contact:

Re: Holy Sh*t - Maschine update 1.6 brings VST/AU hosting !

Post by bridgealantee » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:52 pm

dum wrote:vsts hosting vsts is no big deal, maschine is gonna do that too guaranteed. That's a non-issue.

I ?
Cool, I think i would get more use out of my waves ssl using it in maschine. Launchpad and mpd 24 on ebay shortly.

Post Reply