Ableton Guitarists

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
mooncaine
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by mooncaine » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:30 pm

Pasha wrote:For me Ableton Live delivers as a guitarist.
However, lately I was bouncing back and forth about getting a VG99 or not... VG99 seems so a good way but means I will lose the ability to change sounds later in the process because today all FX are applied in Live.
What do you think?
I use a VG-99, love it, and recommend it. One huge reason: it doesn't need your computer, so if you want to play music without your computer, the VG can be a self-contained solution. You can, however, use your computer to edit patches and stockpile them in library files. You can also use Ableton Live to control the VG-99, and use the VG-99 to control Ableton Live. One drawback: your guitar needs a special (hexaphonic) pickup to get the coolest features (but I think it's worth it).
kanuck wrote:btw a cheat I've found for play piano on ableton. i myself am not too great at keys as well. What I did was setup the scale midi effect and just transpose the key of C to whatever i want. So if i'm playing in the Key of D i'll transpose it +2 semitones. This way I can play the key of c for any song out there. And key of c is so simple because all I ever have to push are the white keys.
Cool idea. It's also possible to do that, in the VG-99 to affect your guitar playing (the actual audio, not just MIDI output)! In other words, you can get that Scale effect with your electric/acoustic guitar sound, whether you use MIDI or not. You'd need the hexaphonic pickup to do this, but here's the summary: set your automatic tuning section to harmony, choose your scale (or even set your own "User" scale), and play whatever. The VG will change all notes you play to match the harmony setting. It's like having Antares Auto-tune running on your guitar. Bending can be a little weird, as the notes shift, and sliding up/down the frets has a very cool, auto-tune-ish sound. It's bags of fun just going wild on the G string with this trick.

I've been meaning to chime in on this thread for a while now; I'm a guitarist who first discovered Ableton Live because I wanted live looping, and I've found it offers so much more that it's my main music tool apart from the VG-99 and the guitar itself. Recording, composing, effects, just about everything I did with a DAW application, I began doing with just Live (and Audacity for direct cutting of sound files). I haven't explored the possibilties of using Live's effects (for live guitar playing) enough, but that's because the VG already does so much for me, self-contained and easy to set up and control.

I do enjoy some effects in Live that the VG doesn't offer (I think), such as Grain Delay, Resonator, Beat Repeat, Erosion, Redux, Vocoder, but I haven't gigged with a laptop, so it's all pretty much home studio play and fun for me these days, just bags and bags of fun.

mooncaine
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by mooncaine » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:43 pm

FuzzyKeys wrote:.... send your dry signal to the sidechain input of the AutoFilter. So while you're feeding it a really harsh and compressed sound to filter, the actual movement of the filter will respond to even the smallest details in your playing. Very hard to achieve with a keyboard and I've been playing for over 10 years.
....
http://www11.zippyshare.com/v/62784016/file.html
Wow, great tip about using dry input signal from the guitar/bass to drive something like the Auto Filter. Now THAT'S something I don't think I can do with just my VG-99. Awesome. Can't wait to get home from the daily grind to try it.

I really liked that sound clip you linked. I would never have imagined I was hearing a real stringed instrument -- it just sounds like fat, sweet electronic synth, with all the advantages (for the person playing it) of a real stringed instrument. Love it.

mooncaine
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by mooncaine » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:20 pm

Buleriachk wrote:2. The function of Space Bar (play/pause) is not available for an off/on MIDI footswitch. (You have to kluge a typists footswitch, but you have to take at the pause while the software waits to see if there is a second keypress (e.g., Pok)
I think I've got good news for you: it is possible to use MIDI to start, stop, and do lots of other controls. The trick is that you buy a Mackie Control, or you just pretend you've got one, and send the same MIDI commands it uses.

It's all gotta happen on MIDI channel 1.

Here's a list of all the controls I know; compiled with help of Machinate and other awesome members of this forum:

http://www.mooncaine.net/live_6_mackie_ ... cb1010.htm

Play and Stop are down near the bottom, MIDI note numbers 93 and 94.

Hope it helps.

mooncaine
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by mooncaine » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:33 pm

kanuck wrote:I'm on a crossroad of where I want my guitar to go. Anyone please chime in and hopefully help me on one way.
There is a Third Way: virtual guitar

I use the VG-99; it's awesome. Or you can pick up an old VG8, and if you're patient and love figuring out how to program effects and synths, you can dial up some crazy synth-like sounds with it.

Just coming out recently is StringPort, which looks similar in some ways.

Cost-wise, the VG-99 wins, because you don't need a computer to dial up awesome weirdness, or to take it onstage. Of course, if you're using Live onstage anyway, computer-based is a plus.

VG8 comes in 2nd, only because it's so old now that you might have probs with internal batteries or repairs. It's solidly built, though, very solid.

Features-wise, StringPort has potential, but isn't there yet. Not enough sound modules and tweaks. Has potential to exceed Roland VG units, though, just because it's computer-based. Pricey but seems like it'll be a good value once they've fleshed out the available options a bit more.

There may be others that I haven't checked out, too (does Axe-FX approach synth-like power for guitarists?).

mooncaine
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by mooncaine » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:50 pm

Gaetano CAPUANO wrote:Is there a way to midi map one individual pedal to send a bank down type signal to fire the next scene, or will it be individual keys for each scene?
This must be down via pedal so I hope it can be bank down scene?
Yes. As kanuck replied, it's possible to map a button to fire a scene, and to move up or down the scene list.

The secret to total control is "Mackie Control Board emulation." Set up a Live MIDI input as if it were a Mackie Control, then send MIDI notes on channel 1. I just posted a link to a list of the notes, and what they do, to this same thread about 20 minutes ago. These controls would let you move from clip to clip, up, down, or sideways, and fire clips, all via MIDI. I do it with my feet, using an FCB1010.

kanuck
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by kanuck » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:12 am

mooncaine wrote:
kanuck wrote:I'm on a crossroad of where I want my guitar to go. Anyone please chime in and hopefully help me on one way.
There is a Third Way: virtual guitar

I use the VG-99; it's awesome. Or you can pick up an old VG8, and if you're patient and love figuring out how to program effects and synths, you can dial up some crazy synth-like sounds with it.

Just coming out recently is StringPort, which looks similar in some ways.

Cost-wise, the VG-99 wins, because you don't need a computer to dial up awesome weirdness, or to take it onstage. Of course, if you're using Live onstage anyway, computer-based is a plus.

VG8 comes in 2nd, only because it's so old now that you might have probs with internal batteries or repairs. It's solidly built, though, very solid.

Features-wise, StringPort has potential, but isn't there yet. Not enough sound modules and tweaks. Has potential to exceed Roland VG units, though, just because it's computer-based. Pricey but seems like it'll be a good value once they've fleshed out the available options a bit more.

There may be others that I haven't checked out, too (does Axe-FX approach synth-like power for guitarists?).
oh wow that's really cool. curious do you use a gk-3 how well does it work? i've heard some people complain about the pickups.

Gaetano CAPUANO
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by Gaetano CAPUANO » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:18 am

mooncaine wrote:
Gaetano CAPUANO wrote:Is there a way to midi map one individual pedal to send a bank down type signal to fire the next scene, or will it be individual keys for each scene?
This must be down via pedal so I hope it can be bank down scene?
Yes. As kanuck replied, it's possible to map a button to fire a scene, and to move up or down the scene list.

The secret to total control is "Mackie Control Board emulation." Set up a Live MIDI input as if it were a Mackie Control, then send MIDI notes on channel 1. I just posted a link to a list of the notes, and what they do, to this same thread about 20 minutes ago. These controls would let you move from clip to clip, up, down, or sideways, and fire clips, all via MIDI. I do it with my feet, using an FCB1010.
Wow thanks Mooncaine, you are being very helpful.

Anyone happened to have a good tutorial or article on how to set up of a live performance, step by step, from just a guiatr player, triggering scenes, and doing a whole set performance complete band while only playing the guitar? Obviously I dont expect someone to have this, but that would be sop helpful. So many options, were to start! So many ways to go.
http://www.customguitarloops.com
Need Guitar or Bass tracks for your project? Message me and lets work that out
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Buleriachk
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by Buleriachk » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:13 am

You can stop and start, as long as you use two footswitches. The idea is to be able to use one (like the spacebar).

mooncaine wrote:
Buleriachk wrote:2. The function of Space Bar (play/pause) is not available for an off/on MIDI footswitch. (You have to kluge a typists footswitch, but you have to take at the pause while the software waits to see if there is a second keypress (e.g., Pok)
I think I've got good news for you: it is possible to use MIDI to start, stop, and do lots of other controls. The trick is that you buy a Mackie Control, or you just pretend you've got one, and send the same MIDI commands it uses.

It's all gotta happen on MIDI channel 1.

Here's a list of all the controls I know; compiled with help of Machinate and other awesome members of this forum:

http://www.mooncaine.net/live_6_mackie_ ... cb1010.htm

Play and Stop are down near the bottom, MIDI note numbers 93 and 94.

Hope it helps.

tinymachines
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by tinymachines » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:05 am

Keep in mind that the C Major scale is the same as the A Minor Scale. This comes in really useful for playing live sets and transitioning songs from happier to sad songs, and making them run together smoothly. All you will ever need for both is the white keys.

Gaetano CAPUANO
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by Gaetano CAPUANO » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:07 am

tinymachines wrote:Keep in mind that the C Major scale is the same as the A Minor Scale. This comes in really useful for playing live sets and transitioning songs from happier to sad songs, and making them run together smoothly. All you will ever need for both is the white keys.
So true Tiny.
http://www.customguitarloops.com
Need Guitar or Bass tracks for your project? Message me and lets work that out
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kanuck
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by kanuck » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:12 am

tinymachines wrote:Keep in mind that the C Major scale is the same as the A Minor Scale. This comes in really useful for playing live sets and transitioning songs from happier to sad songs, and making them run together smoothly. All you will ever need for both is the white keys.
I love ableton's scale effect. although i bet a lot of other DAW's have it as well. I just don't have time to learn 12 different scales and all 24 chords to play the basics of piano. With the effect I only have to worry about technique and I can focus more on the songwriting.

tinymachines
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by tinymachines » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:17 am

I love the way you can just write everything in c major/a minor in ableton and then change the pitch up a few steps if you want variety.

mooncaine
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by mooncaine » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:50 am

kanuck wrote:... do you use a gk-3 how well does it work? i've heard some people complain about the pickups.
I have a GK-2A on my all-maple, totally awesome cheapskate Steinberger Spirit GT-Pro, and it's pretty damn good. No complaints here. Well, I wish the polepieces lined up with the narrow string spacing a bit better, but that's not the pickup's fault. It's just a shame that they only make one size pickup.

So, the external pickup comes with a big plastic control box, and, yeah, that can get in the way, for some players, but when I consider the awesomeness that I get from using this pickup with a Roland VG, it's well worth it.

I just got a GK-3 internal kit a few weeks ago, and I'm thinking of installing it on a cheap Ibanez GiO I found that plays amazingly. I like inexpensive guitars that have good necks and good construction, even if they're ugly or have crappy pickups, because... I ain't gonna use the stock pickups anyway. They're good bargains and I don't feel bad about cutting them up for mad science projects.

The pickups are fine. Some players prefer to get a piezo system installed, but to me, those don't sound as convincing when you dial up a sim of an electric guitar and amp. I just wish the pickups were available in different widths.

Pasha
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by Pasha » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:24 am

Thanks mooncaine your answers where very useful to me.
Here is one example of what I'm after:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/6e8rkq

Pad is a Guitar processed (in real time) in Ableton Live no Volume Pedal used
Solo is a Guitar processed entirely in Zebrify
Bass is ehm... a Bass
Mixed down in a hurry so... be kind.
A part from the genre which we're not discussing here, I really think Guitar processing
in Ableton Live gives good results. I can post more if you like.

That's why Ableton Live + Zebrify for me does already a lot.
I can't imagine what M4L could add to this but given my first attempts
something can be done.

A VG99 would give me more on this I guess but given the results I have obtained
(which are almost at their top capabilities IMHO) is 1099 Euro worth it?
I need GK3 pickup too (included in 1099 Euros) and guitar 'modding'...

- Best
- Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Hanz_Petrov
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Re: Ableton Guitarists

Post by Hanz_Petrov » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:30 pm

mooncaine wrote:The secret to total control is "Mackie Control Board emulation." Set up a Live MIDI input as if it were a Mackie Control, then send MIDI notes on channel 1. I just posted a link to a list of the notes, and what they do, to this same thread about 20 minutes ago. These controls would let you move from clip to clip, up, down, or sideways, and fire clips, all via MIDI. I do it with my feet, using an FCB1010.
There's a customizable remote script for the FCB1010 at my blog, which picks up most (if not all) of the Mackie funtions, and includes control over the APC/Launchpad "red box" as well:
http://remotescripts.blogspot.com/ and
http://remotescripts.blogspot.com/p/sup ... ml#FCB1020

Best,

Hanz

PS: I'm primarily a guitarist; I made the switch from Sonar to Ableton about a year ago. Enjoying this thread - thanks.
http://remotescripts.blogspot.com/ - an introduction to the Framework classes

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