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 Post subject: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:17 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:23 am
Posts: 52
I make many track volume automation changes as I'm creating new music before I mix it. Snare rolls, custom fades, whatever. Big problem with that is then I can't change the track volume in the post production mixing process without deactivating my production volume automation. I mean, how can I do track mixing on the track fader without negating my track volume automation?

It's as if I make a song, write or perform my volume automation and then have to change it track by track. I tried highlighting all the track for all the audio regions, then changing the automation in a group selection, but no, it only changes that individual track still.

How do I mix after making a ton of track volume automation?

Get back,

D

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:39 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Switzerland
which is why you should not do volume automation except for the actual mixing.

to fix it if already done: if you don't have track-groups, group the tracks to get a "secondary" volume. if needed, individually.

to prevent it: use utility or similar on a track for the musical non-mixing automation.

i think that's about it? anyone else?

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:56 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:26 pm
Posts: 507
mmm... you mean if I automate my volumes a lot, when its time to output the track and I want to lower all the volumes to -6db, the automated tracks are not going to like it?

I'll have to be careful about it in the future, I often do just that.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:07 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
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Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
use the utility to record fades etc, so it leaves the track volume free for mixing

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:09 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
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Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
see also
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=151451


which covers the idea of grouping each track, maybe a better option

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:07 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:23 am
Posts: 52
davepermen wrote:
which is why you should not do volume automation except for the actual mixing.

to fix it if already done: if you don't have track-groups, group the tracks to get a "secondary" volume. if needed, individually.

to prevent it: use utility or similar on a track for the musical non-mixing automation.

i think that's about it? anyone else?


The thing about telling Ableton users to not automate volume pre final mix is, it's asking us to be limited like it's analog console mixing again. This is digital audio, volume automation shouldn't be limited to the the final mix process with modern DAWs. It's why we involve ourselves with digital audio.

All we need is one, or both of two possible solutions. One, changing the track volume should also change the over all track volume automation relatively. Two, Ableton should at least show you the volume automation dB level as you drag it up or down. You have to guess you dB level as you change it. Unsung problem.

Fix it Ableton. I still think you're neat though.


...the Utility track prevention idea is genius though.

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:11 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Posts: 4657
davepermen wrote:
which is why you should not do volume automation except for the actual mixing.



says who? just because ableton live cant deal with it? pfff..

best way to mix with ableton live is to dont mix with it..

rewire it into logic or protools or another big daw for mix down and enjoy automation with trim..


or insert utility pugs for the level adustment of the whole automated track

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:15 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Posts: 4657
Digable Dialogue wrote:
The thing about telling Ableton users to not automate volume pre final mix is, it's asking us to be limited like it's analog console mixing again.



what are you talking about? analog console mixing is not limited.. atually the best you can do to your boxi ableton sound..

and i wonder what kind of fancy music you guys are doing that you need s much automation..

filmscores with 98 tracks?

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:52 pm 

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 1077
Location: Paris
Yes 3phase.
I was working on the Avatar soundtrack, and we had 150 tracks. And also for Terminator Salvasion, I remember 169 tracks. Lots of automation especialy on strings.
And the new Daft Punk tracks for Tron. Lots of automation again even if it's very smooth and not noticable.


I used the utility Plug to do all my automations in those soundtracks and there was never a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Posts: 4657
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
Yes 3phase.
I was working on the Avatar soundtrack, and we had 150 tracks. And also for Terminator Salvasion, I remember 169 tracks. Lots of automation especialy on strings.
And the new Daft Punk tracks for Tron. Lots of automation again even if it's very smooth and not noticable.


I used the utility Plug to do all my automations in those soundtracks and there was never a problem.



you was working on theese soundtracks with ableton live? really? wow ..thats a first timer... and daftpunk delivred tracks you was mixing with ableton live to the score? the movie tron mixed in the box and not on a harrison and that in ableton live?

really? ableton would pay a fortune for that advertizement possebility.. it just would need some proof because it sounds so unbelivable.

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting volume automation for every track.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:08 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Posts: 4657
funken wrote:
use the utility to record fades etc, so it leaves the track volume free for mixing



the quicker way is to record your automation with the fader..and use the utility plug for trimming.. as a relative level adjust for the whole automated track...

however the other way around funken is mentoning can give more comfort when you do a special fx rack with the utility plug.. because you need to be able to fade to silence.. what is actually possible by doing a fade with 2 utility plugs in series and applying a mute at the end. so down to -70 db and than mute.. with the chains you could teoretical have diferent automations you can switch in between..

but this all with a lot of setuptime.. a clear work around.. a trim function is missing where on can use the faders with theire automations and apply a new trim automation on top.. also automation off is missing badly.. while the trim can be a global function that applys to all tracks on one runoff the autoamtion off would needed on the individual channels..
however.. this is an other argument for doing it with an utility plug ..just bypass it..automation gone..

but ok..you cant have everything..

would be however handy when the utility plug would have 2 switchable ranges.. on as it is for legacy reasons ...and one that can go to -inf

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