AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Tone Deft
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:54 pm

o0o wrote:somebody call that guy Stale Bread I remember he made ableton put in the drumsampler slicer back in the day :)
:lol:

the day it happened his reaction was like "whoa... umm wow, I wasn't THAT serious about it." something like that.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

Tone Deft
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:55 pm

fx23 wrote:If you are happy with the situation. it's cool.
I didn't write that.

goddamn.

I only whined that you're being whiny repeating what's been whined about time and again.


for Ableton hindsight's a bitch. "why didn't we..."
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

fx23
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by fx23 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:09 am

lol
ok

anyway, only them could prevent us from whining, by :,;, bring it out.

Tone Deft
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:10 am

save us from ourselves!!!!

save me from having another Red Bull... 8O

Red Bull + Primus = :twisted:
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

fx23
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by fx23 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:14 am

so you already drink 14 coffes, go to meta emphetamines it will be more efficient :)

yeah i also like that weird stuff, but really that's not good lol

Tone Deft
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:24 am

maybe we need to drop some of that high powered human rocket fuel off at Ableton HQ, chain the doors shut and not let them out until the Session View recording downloads are available.

coffee is free at work, Red Bull is $2.50, wtf is up with that? it's all productivity enhancement, to a point.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

fx23
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by fx23 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:31 am

yeah good idea
some who got the keys need to infiltrate and hack the coffee machine with good boost stuff, they will rewrite that clean in a week :)
we could have automation for x-mas mmm

dum
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by dum » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:29 am

timothyallan wrote:I'd say the reasoning is pretty valid for the lifecycle of the Live product.
Of course you would, you're a shill.

I'd say your self-serving apologism would be reasonable if the same requests didn't start pouring in until it was too late...like 2007 to pick a year.
But 2002 ?

F'gettaboutit.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

Ben_Binary
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by Ben_Binary » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:38 am

Why dont they just write a plugin or 'session' version of live that does it then let us
use it rewired or as a plugin with drag n drop into session view?

All the programers I have worked with are able to do magic... and do it fairly quickly.
Its the 'managers'and marketing bods that tend to get in the way of good work in my experience.

But what would I know?
EA, Sega n Rockstar are obviously different to Ableton but my understanding of software development
doesnt reconcile with my experiences using it.

I would expect a max4Live type plugin/runtime/patch that uses the APC20/40/LP
to create an Ableton 'Maschine' allowing sesion view trickyness would sell heaps of units.
soundcloud Live 9 & Push / Reaper / Octatrack / Rytm / MicroBrute / Nord Modular G1 & G2 / Waldorf Rack Attack / Juno 60 / Monotron & Duo / SeratoDJ / Komplete 9 / OhmForce

ze2be
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by ze2be » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:38 am

timothyallan wrote:It's not just a coding perspective, it's how the 2 areas related to each other using relative and absolute automation. It's a workflow change that affects the entire product and the way that their current user base works with Live as a program. As the user base grows (which it has exponentially in the past few years), the change becomes harder to implement without upsetting a larger portion of those users.

I see both points of view though, so we'll see if it ever changes.
So perhaps they shold start a fresh new project, while still suporting good old Live for many more years. And slowly move developers over to the new project as it progresses. Theres a huge userbase dependent on Lives curent version. And they will not be willing or able to jump ship for a long time.

I liked the idea someone mentioned here though, on creating a new session, with a hardware integration like Maschine. Would also like it patch-modular, like reason etc. Ableton with Live seem to be in a bit of a personality skitzofrenic crises lately. On one side theres the studio worker, on the other side its the live performer. A lot of times users are both places. Its not possible to make a one controller concept like Maschine. It might have to be two controllers. A daw mixer type, and an instrument type.
? ? ? ? ?

fx23
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by fx23 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:02 am

sure a "live maschine" would be cool, but im not sure they should split in two versions,
exept if they keep a 100 percent backward compatibility lame escuse. then ok they can keep the same, make fundz,
and recreate a true live instrument. but i prefer the all in one idea, original live/daw idea, but fixed.

why would you think users would be disturbed?
The way i see the actual behaviour could be totally 100 percent retranscripted by default, so users
wouldn't be in a conpletelly different world at all, that would be the same exact live, there would just be
an option controlled by a simple swich letting us choose wich is master curve (arr/session) and how behave the slave (bypassed/relative modulation). that's all. that mean one or max 2 buttons on the gui.

once clips have live automations juicy and quicly recorded by midi cc, you can transfer to arrange, and vice versa flawlesly and for all parameters types, beeing a vst or live device, in a transparent manner.

I can't understand what is so complex behind this and why it take 8 years to fix by a team with such ressources as ableton.

if lame escuse is backward compatibility of okder project, then users should vote if they prefer to keep their old weird liveset
or do a fresh new one in 10x less time using automation to session.

personally im 2000 percent ready to sit on my old stuff if i get autom to session. I will work 10x faster.

davepermen
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by davepermen » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:07 am

well, at some point, they have to make a cut. they should encapsulate their engine so that they can have two "runtimes". similar, to how office 2007/2010 handles old .doc / .xls files easily, but actually one should use .docx / .xlsx, the new formats. they should create a new live that is similar, but not compatible. and support the old one, say freezing the 8.2 engine they have as a backwars compatible layer.

browsers do this with several layers, office does this. windows does it, too. osx did it for a long time with their os9 layer.

if they don't do that, they can't progress much anymore. and yes, it's hard work. but they have one nice thing: they don't need to have transparent 100% compatibility (like windows, osx, browsers). they can handle it like office. showing the user "compatibility mode" and all, informing them. allowing them to upgrade a project while leaving the original intact, just in case.
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

Mr-Bit
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by Mr-Bit » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:17 am

YAWN this time again is it FFS do it allready!

8 years ahh brings tears to my eyes haven't seen a session automation thread for ages.Not gonna be bored into submission gotta keep up the fight

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102767

Seadweller
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by Seadweller » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:01 am

djod wrote:Well maybe the addition of vst in Maschine will wake them up.
Automation is bloody easy and wicked fast in Maschine.
The concept of GroupClips could make the transition happen in Live. http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=141848
Maybe they have a better solution, but it is possible, without loosing backward compatibility.
It would also open the door to some new ways of working in session view.

I say time for a rewrite :mrgreen:
Yes, but you forget that one of the most crucial functionalities that Maschine still lacks is song automation... You can only automate parameters in a pattern level

delicioso
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Re: AUTOMATION TO SESSION has been asked since 2002 8 YEARS!!!

Post by delicioso » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:12 pm

Seadweller wrote:
djod wrote:Well maybe the addition of vst in Maschine will wake them up.
Automation is bloody easy and wicked fast in Maschine.
The concept of GroupClips could make the transition happen in Live. http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=141848
Maybe they have a better solution, but it is possible, without loosing backward compatibility.
It would also open the door to some new ways of working in session view.

I say time for a rewrite :mrgreen:
Yes, but you forget that one of the most crucial functionalities that Maschine still lacks is song automation... You can only automate parameters in a pattern level
Song automation? Are you referring to the Arrangement view? If so, I much prefer using Maschine standalone and drag and dropping into a DAW like Logic for composition compared to Live's session and arrangement view.

If you mean working with scenes and follow actions, I like that Maschine is actually more flexible in terms of how you want scenes to behave. You can arrange scenes to play one after another, like follow actions for scenes, you can set one scene to loop until you select another scene, and you can select a range of scenes to loop. And you can do all this from the controller.

NI has actually mentioned in one of their On the Record sessions that they've been working on better song arrangement features and said it would be one of the first features to be implemented in their development map. So I'm actually expecting that to make it in as one of the 1.6 update features.

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