25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
agent314
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:07 am

Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by agent314 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:07 am

What's not to understand?
Does this really add up?
This sentence is inquiring as to whether the discounted price of the current version would be sufficient to offset the cost of an upgrade to a new version.
Will a 25% off upgrade to v.8 + v.9 upgrade > v.8 purchase + free v.9 upgrade ??
This is a mathematical representation of the concept. Will getting 25% off the purchase price of the current version (v.8) plus the cost of upgrading to a new version (v.9) be greater than the cost of purchasing the current version at full price, but getting a free upgrade to the new version?
I can't imagine there will be much difference, will there?


This sentence is questioning the notion that either of the aforementioned quantities will be significantly larger or smaller than the other.
My understanding is that these offers are typically to increase user base, rather than make a shed load of cash...
This statement is expressing his position, which questions the credulity of this deal being a nefarious cash grab designed to screw their users, in light of the more reasonable assumption that they are simply trying to gain customers.

Szuumm
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by Szuumm » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:14 am

^this, exactly.

If you could now explain where this is wrong, I can decide whether to upgrade or not :)

dum
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by dum » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:20 am

jesus wept,

it's not rocket science.

The scenario as someone who does not own a live license to begin with:
25% off buying Live8 during this promotion, will leave you in a position where live9 is announced shortly afterwards. You might find this annoying. You will be charged to upgrade to live9 if being on the bleeding edge is what you want.

The scenario as someone who is already live licensee:
25% off buying a Live8 upgrade during this promotion, will leave you in a position where live9 is announced shortly afterwards. You might find this annoying. You will be charged to upgrade to live9 if being on the bleeding edge is what you want.


OK HERE'S THE IMPORTANT BIT.
The scenario as someone who does not own a live license to begin with:
if you wait until Live9 is announced, you can purchase Live8 and get live9 FOR FREE.

The scenario as someone who is already live licensee:
if you wait until live9 is announced, you can purchase a Live8 upgrade and get live9 FOR FREE.



Should I explain why it's beneficial to own both, or can you guys figure that much out for yourselves ?
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

Szuumm
Posts: 209
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by Szuumm » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:40 am

Ok, accepted about new users but this thread is about upgrading.

For me:

Full version of Live 8 d/l (€349) + free upgrade to 9 = €349

7-8 upgrade (Inc 25% discount) €99

So the only issue is if the 8-9 upgrade will be less than €250?

dum
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by dum » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:55 am

Szuumm wrote:Ok, accepted about new users but this thread is about upgrading.

For me:

Full version of Live 8 d/l (€349) + free upgrade to 9 = €349

7-8 upgrade (Inc 25% discount) €99

So the only issue is if the 8-9 upgrade will be less than €250?
you still don't get it.

And to be honest I really couldn't be fucked explaining it to you any more than I already have.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

CFM
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by CFM » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:13 am

I just upgraded to the suit last month – but not moaning I may have got another 25% off. There always has to be a cut off point – as you can see if you have visited the Sonar X1 forums lately.

More of a concern is “Don't worry, Live 9 does not contain any new features”. Depends what you call new features? Again taking Cakewalks X1 it has Skylight and Pro Channel mixing (in the producer version). Ok these maybe not extra’s as in soft synths, ECT but they are still new features. If Live 9 does not have new features then there would be no need to release version 9.

Like all DAWs Live has to compete in a market where others exist and even though I love Live and use it as my main DAW, Live is starting to look a little tired around the edges.

It needs better window management, maybe a GUI update and certainly better mastering and output facilities. AMP did not get a good review in some of the music mags and you can’t say that Live has a killer app (as in a soft synth or something of this type) that will tempt people in. Maybe they should team up with NI to produce a Live version of Massive?
Last edited by CFM on Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jimmynitcher
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Location: UK

Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by jimmynitcher » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:25 am

you still don't get it.

And to be honest I really couldn't be fucked explaining it to you any more than I already have
Ha ha, ever considered a career in teaching?

crumhorn
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by crumhorn » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:18 am

The golden rule with special offers is that you will always get a better offer if you wait a bit longer - no matter how "unbeatable" or "never to be repeated" the offer may be.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

CFM
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by CFM » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:42 pm

I don’t get it :lol:

Dum you are assuming that Live 9 will be free to those who buy 8 in the upgrade period. Maybe they will work differently and release 9, withdraw 8 and charge upgrade prices. It could go anyway!

I suppose what I’m saying is don’t assume any upgrade to LIVE 9 is going to be free. They may run a different business model. Plus there has been no indication when Live 9 (even if it’s going to be called that) maybe released and personally I think Ableton have a lot of work to do to keep their DAW competitive in the current market. An odd tinkering of the product and call it Live 9 is not going it a cut above other products in the market. The 25% off maybe in response to Cakewalk’s announcement of a free download of XL for old Cakewalk users (like myself who did not upgrade to 8.5 to temp back their customer base) and there very aggressive price cut for a new copy of Sonar X1.

I think it’s a bit of a rock and a hard place for Ableton. Live is a brilliant program but lacks any killer plug-ins yet at the same time has become a beast of a program with different Live Apps (some better than others) yet as the same time has become rather expensive (for the suite).

I have to say for Ableton Live is at a cross-roads of where they want to take the product that needs careful consideration because any thought of Version 9.

dum
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by dum » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:01 pm

CFM wrote:I don’t get it :lol:

Dum you are assuming that Live 9 will be free to those who buy 8 in the upgrade period. Maybe they will work differently and release 9, withdraw 8 and charge upgrade prices. It could go anyway!

I suppose what I’m saying is don’t assume any upgrade to LIVE 9 is going to be free. They may run a different business model. Plus there has been no indication when Live 9 (even if it’s going to be called that) maybe released

Am I speaking Swahili here ?

When they announce live9, and only when they announce live9, you will qualify for a free live9 upgrade should you end up buying a live8 license. be it an upgrade, or new license. If history is anything to go by.

I'm not just assuming that, I'm pretty much guaranteeing that's how it's going to go down.
What do you think will happen to all those live8 boxes in retailers & distributors all across europe & the usa once live9 is announced ? I suppose ableton will pay to have them sent back to berlin where they'll be crushed and recycled ? Even if they deviate from the well forged historical path you can still bet your last dollar that that is the best time to buy your live8 license. Upgrade or otherwise.

It's not like you're getting one over on them either, it's much of a muchness really.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

andydes
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by andydes » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:58 pm

I think they’ve previously backdated a bit from the announcement to cover some people who bought Live shortly before the announcement. Bit of a gamble trying to play for that one though. The upgrade pricing has gotten pretty complicated in the past, with extra little discounts depending on what you’ve bought before.

This is all to try and avoid people bitching about how the prices aren’t fair because of whatever their personal circumstances. Never works though.

Golden rule no.2: If your purchase was worth the money when you bought it, it doesn’t suddenly become a rip off just because someone else got it cheaper.

dazzer
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by dazzer » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:22 pm

Abes announce Live 9, nobody buys any products until it's released, revenues dry up.

Or, they continue to sell Live 8/Live 8 upgrades in the meantime, after 9 is announced, with free upgrade to 9, just like they've done with previous versions, revenue keeps coming in.

Wonder which one they'll choose?

tl;dr dum is right.

blakflag
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by blakflag » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:10 pm

dum wrote:jesus wept,

it's not rocket science.
Arg, I hate this kind of attitude. Especially when it's YOU who obviously don't "get" it.

The original question was basically this: Will it be more expensive to buy NOW at a discount, AND purchase an upgrade... OR buy later AT FULL PRICE and get a free upgrade. You're not going to get BOTH a discount and free upgrade.

Example:
I do not own LIVE, I purchase Live 8 at a discount ($379) + I later purchase upgrade to Live 9 ($189???) = $568
OR I wait, and purchase Live 8 AFTER the sale ($449???) and get a free 9.
(??? means we don't freaking know wat the prices will be.)

So on the face of it it does look cheaper to wait. Except that you'll be waiting all Winter. AND you do not know what Ableton's prices will be. Maybe it will be only $50 to upgrade as a promotion. Maybe they'll raise the price of Live to $599 after the sale. We don't know. Finally, maybe Live 9 will be a stinking pile of bugs and crap features like Facebook integration. Who knows if you'll even want it.

Hardly a trivial question to ponder.

So Dum, PLEASE, don't dismiss someone's question unless you understand the question. Especially when they seem to know some mathematics and you (apparently) don't. :|

friend_kami
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by friend_kami » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:36 pm

im not gonna pay a single cent to upgrade to 9. we just got 8 working as it was announced (well sortof, still crashes 3 times more then any other of my daws), after more then 1 year of crashing, whining and a highly unstable release which we paid full price for.
if anything we should get live 9 for free. i know we got amp, but seriously, who here prefers a substandard amp suite over a working daw?

resonatorman
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Re: 25% off upgrading = Live 9 announcement in early 2011?

Post by resonatorman » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:32 pm

Sorry to sidetrack. I'm tempted to get max 4 live with this discount period, i don't own Max & don't necessarily need it now, so could wait as a $ is a bit tight in case they offer a discount for it with going from 8 to 9b(that's if it they do). With that in mind does any remember what the discount was getting M4L with the upgrade from 7 to 8, that's assuming the abes offer a similar discount for max going from 8 to 9?

Thanks
MBP 2.5ghz 4gb + Live 8.2.1 (Suite)

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