Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
timothyallan
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Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by timothyallan » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:27 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTA8_kFcU24

Here is a video I just did explaining the latency issues I encounter in Live 8 with Maschine when I have latency inducing plugins in my project. In order to record with no latency in Live, you have to record enable the track. Live doesn't compensate properly for the delay and when you take off record, all your timing is off.

Logic doesn't have this issue!

Am I missing something?

delicioso
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by delicioso » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:13 am

I don't know. I don't use Live for production anymore. It's too unstable and not as CPU efficient as Logic. I say just stick to Logic for production like I do and keep Live for live use as it was originally intended. Although I'm finding I use MainStage more for live purposes too. 8O

Ben_Binary
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by Ben_Binary » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:17 am

Sad but true.

I have logic but am liking Reaper.
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Goran@Irrupt
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by Goran@Irrupt » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:44 am

how many people are praising Maschine on this board, i would expect you'd get an answer in matter of minutes. instead you're getting advice to use Reaper... c'mon Ablotonians, you can do better that that... ;)

p.s. wish i could help you out, but I don't own the Maschine.
http://www.irrupt.com ? Irrupt Studios / A&R

Sibanger
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by Sibanger » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:17 am

^^

Errr yeah, I never read about the latency issues with Live in the Machine lovein thread. 8O

I thought it just worked.

2be
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by 2be » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:19 pm

Wow, that seriously sucks!
I don't like Maschine as a plugin anyway. Not having control over transport from the Maschine controller if in plugin mode somehow kills the workflow for me.
I just lay down patters in Msachine standalone and then export every single sound to Ableton Live, where I treat them with effects and arrange them.

squelcht
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by squelcht » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:40 pm

Use Maschine in standalone. Route the audio with JackOS (Mac) or Soundflower into Ableton. Not only can use use Machine as a master MIDI clock (utilizing start/stop features) but you'll see your Ableton performance/CPU bar drop dramatically. Before I went with this setup I was having the same sort of latency issues, as well as audio/cpu/processor spikes with Ableton when using Maschine as a plugin. NI plugins just kicks your fKn' CPU in the balls

Needless to say I fKn love using Maschine in standalone. I have better control of Maschine. Instead of Live dictating Maschine - Maschine dictates Live. But hey to each of his own ya know? If you haven't tried this setup yet then I highly recommend you do so...NOW.

2be
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by 2be » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:44 pm

This really sounds interesting. Is there any way to do so in Windows 7?

squelcht
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by squelcht » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:59 pm

Hmm..I thought Soundflower was available for Windows - guess not. :?

I'm not sure what kind of JackOS & Soundflower style tools are available on Windows...I guess I should've address this. I just noticed that timothyallan is using a Mac so I was more giving him a little direction. BTW I use JackOS (Soundflower just isn't as badass :P) With JackOS you can route audio from programs modular style via its patching. It just works.

The Northern Contingent
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by The Northern Contingent » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:24 pm

squelcht wrote:Use Maschine in standalone. Route the audio with JackOS (Mac) or Soundflower into Ableton. Not only can use use Machine as a master MIDI clock (utilizing start/stop features) but you'll see your Ableton performance/CPU bar drop dramatically. Before I went with this setup I was having the same sort of latency issues, as well as audio/cpu/processor spikes with Ableton when using Maschine as a plugin. NI plugins just kicks your fKn' CPU in the balls

Needless to say I fKn love using Maschine in standalone. I have better control of Maschine. Instead of Live dictating Maschine - Maschine dictates Live. But hey to each of his own ya know? If you haven't tried this setup yet then I highly recommend you do so...NOW.
Sorry if there is an obvious answer to this - I've got JackOS and Soundflower on the Mac but am struggling to understand how to set it up so that Maschine controls Ableton (both these programs confuse me!). Could you explain how you've got your setup working, or point me towards a thread that does this?

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:39 pm

OH shit, that sucks dude. I don't use latency inducing plug-ins in Live, so haven't had the problem. Can you not use the delay compensation slider for the Maschine track to put it back where it should be?
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lucas@lucasowens.com
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by lucas@lucasowens.com » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:41 pm

Probably no help to you unless your latency inducing plug-in is a Virus TI, but in that case I switch the TI to "Live" mode and route the outputs to the hardware outs. This will keep everything pretty much in time while I program Maschine. Then when everything is written and I'm arranging I turn "Live" mode off and everything is in perfect time. Not a perfect solution, but works. I wish there was a better way to handle this.

Luke

humnumb
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by humnumb » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:53 pm

Not sure why anyone would bother routing audio with soundflower or jack... The easiest and most efficient way I've found is to use Maschine standalone and just drag and drop audio/midi to Live, Logic or whatever DAW you use.

Done.

Machinesworking
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:14 pm

Have you tried recording into Maschine with "In" instead of Auto on the track you're recording on?

Another idea is to introduce a dummy external FX plug in or external instrument somehow on Maschines track in order to get Live to not delay compensate the track itself since you're not recording MIDI into Live anyway. This is the issue really, you're recording into Maschine, so Live is delaying the whole thing like Maschines hardware is undergoing the same latency it is.

Also, try turning delay compensation off while recording, this is probably the quickest fix, just depends on how whack your latency inducing plug ins sound when trying to record.

timothyallan
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by timothyallan » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:02 pm

MW - Recording "in" has the same effect as record armed, hit a pad and 80ms later a sound comes out :) I'll try the dummy fx routing to see if that does anything.

humnumb - How would you integrate Maschine with the rest of your track if you do it that way? Keep bouncing audio out of Live then import into maschine to play along with??

I can turn delay compensation off, then do recording in Maschine, then flick it back on, but its hard to keep a groove when drum tracks are all off.

Running standalone Maschine is a PITA because I have to keep remembering to save my Maschine project as well as my Live project, and tiny things like automation no longer work in Live for Maschine ;)


So really, everything is just a 'workaround' with Live, there is nothing I'm missing. I find it weird that in the 3 billion pages of the Maschine lovefest thread that nobody ever mentioned this. Any compressor/limiter/de-esser with lookahead or oversampling will induce latency, as do programs like PSP VW or Ozone etc etc, so it's not like I'm using strange esoteric plugins that nobody else uses. SIGH.

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