Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
jbone1313
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by jbone1313 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:42 am

Is it the case that most people use record quantizing, and therefore do not notice this?

Which software is the problem? I.e., is it Abes or NI not handling latency properly? Or, is that unclear as of now?

Machinesworking
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:54 am

timothyallan wrote:I can turn delay compensation off, then do recording in Maschine, then flick it back on, but its hard to keep a groove when drum tracks are all off.
Turn off the latency inducing plug ins while recording, turn off delay compensation, record, then turn all that shit back on. I'll bet the problem goes away then. You're basically recording into another sequencer which is being adversely affected by Live's delay compensation, because Live isn't made to deal with that. With Logic it's a different story as Logic doesn't use as many resources (CPU) as Live does, has better low buffer capability etc.

timothyallan
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by timothyallan » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:04 am

Meeh, not an option really. If I have 50 tracks, I have to sift through each one disabling a bunch of my plugins + turning off Lives PDC every time I want to record something into Maschine in time? It's a huge PITA, not to mention all my drum grooves are off timing wise now. The track sounds like shoes in a dryer to quote a pommie friend of mine.

I just went into Logic, and duplicated track after track with Nebula reverbs, 4096 sample buffer Sonnox De-essers, PSP Vintagewarmers + Ozone 4 and Maschine was bang on responsive and recorded perfectly. Regardless if I had the track armed or not in Logic. CPU was way higher than in Live and buffer settings were identical.

ikarys
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by ikarys » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:09 am

Sorry if there is an obvious answer to this - I've got JackOS and Soundflower on the Mac but am struggling to understand how to set it up so that Maschine controls Ableton (both these programs confuse me!). Could you explain how you've got your setup working, or point me towards a thread that does this?
Ditto!
Ableton Suite 8.2, APC40, Novation ZeRO SL MkII, Maschine, Keyrig49

continuous
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by continuous » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:22 am

^^^

SaintJoe posted up a very nice explanation of this over on the NI forum...

Sorry, I don't have the link though. Search here as well I think he may have posted it here.

timothyallan
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by timothyallan » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:06 am

Just tried that trick where you run Maschine standalone and have it control Live. Not gonna happen for me unfortunately. The tempo fluctuates as it sending out just plain midi clock and Lives tempo flickers around +/- .5 bpm.... which is fine for some people, but in the bigger picture this means that all my audio clips which are running in "beats" warp mode at the tracks bpm (i.e. no warping), now warp and therefore sound like sounds do when you warp them :)

So steeeeeerike 2.

filterstein
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by filterstein » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:43 pm

I don't record in Live because of this, record only in machine patterns .
This has been bugging me since at least live 5, the more tracks, the more timing pain.
Disabling monitoring for the track might correct it, there's a hatefull thread about that.
Not sure but i think if you disable monitoring and route it to another track with monitoring set to in that might work too.

arafel
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by arafel » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:39 am

Tim - although I have no magic advice for you (sry), I would like to thank you for the video and post.
Nice to hear the realism about the integration with Live.
Gives more to consider before such a purchase. Ty.

Could you adjust the track-delay (-80ms) of the track with Maschine to compensate for this timing error?
2.8ghz Quad Mac, Live 9.77, Remote25, Maschine 1, Fa-66 optical link, Samson 65a. Dog hair.. lots.

timothyallan
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by timothyallan » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:08 am

Heeey Calgary, my hometown :)

Glad you got something out of it.

Yes I could adjust track delay I suppose, but each time I drop a compressor/limiter/linearphase eq on any track, I'd have to go and re-adjust it Maschines latency. There's also no way in Live to tell how much delay in ms your PDC is compensating for. I also don't think the pads would play in time either in that scenario... although they might

arafel
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by arafel » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:59 am

Ohh.. :(
Having to adjust (or at least check) trackdelay for Maschine with evey plugin change would kill flow.
and ya.. even freezing and trying to manually count the samples is out, unless your really OCD and got lots of time to kill. Ok... I might have tried that a couple times measuring RMX envelopes.

Upside is your not in your hometown, as its -28'C.
2.8ghz Quad Mac, Live 9.77, Remote25, Maschine 1, Fa-66 optical link, Samson 65a. Dog hair.. lots.

Machinesworking
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:04 am

Another possible solution:
http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/latencyfixer.html

Doesn't look like it's been updated in a while, but it has no GUI so it's probably still going strong.

timothyallan
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by timothyallan » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:12 am

Again, you'd have to adjust it each time you add a plugin. There's also no solid way of telling how much PDC Live is using other than by ear.

The Carpet Cleaner
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:50 pm

squelcht wrote:Use Maschine in standalone. Route the audio with JackOS (Mac) or Soundflower into Ableton. Not only can use use Machine as a master MIDI clock (utilizing start/stop features) but you'll see your Ableton performance/CPU bar drop dramatically. Before I went with this setup I was having the same sort of latency issues, as well as audio/cpu/processor spikes with Ableton when using Maschine as a plugin. NI plugins just kicks your fKn' CPU in the balls

Needless to say I fKn love using Maschine in standalone. I have better control of Maschine. Instead of Live dictating Maschine - Maschine dictates Live. But hey to each of his own ya know? If you haven't tried this setup yet then I highly recommend you do so...NOW.
Absolutly same exact workfow. hi 5 squelcht :mrgreen:
It's great to produce without nowing where you go : created random paterns in Maschine. Drag n drop in session view in Live.
Then find what goes well and mess around a little bit more. Not sure if I could do that with logic.

Machinesworking
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:33 pm

timothyallan wrote:Again, you'd have to adjust it each time you add a plugin. There's also no solid way of telling how much PDC Live is using other than by ear.
OK, well then you're fucked, Maschine and Live do not work together the way you want them to, If adjusting one plug in is too much work for you, life is over and done with.
Pull the trigger, pop the pill, slice the vein, be done with it. :twisted:

Either that or learn to flatten your audio, and stop complaining that there's issues when you use basically a shit ton of mastering plug ins in Live during the recording process, do some of the work arounds suggested and deal with it. I was all willing to throw out ideas for you as you went through the trouble of making a video, but it's apparent that you feel that because you did, the solution must be perfect. From the suggestions of others it seems you would really have to delve into this problem to get something working, others are using Maschine outside of Live, but I just don't think you have the troubleshooting mindset to actually come up with a real solution now that it's obvious the answer isn't simple. Good luck I guess?

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: Maschine swarm-How do you handle latency issues-Video inside

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:42 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
timothyallan wrote:Again, you'd have to adjust it each time you add a plugin. There's also no solid way of telling how much PDC Live is using other than by ear.
OK, well then you're fucked, Maschine and Live do not work together the way you want them to, If adjusting one plug in is too much work for you, life is over and done with.
Pull the trigger, pop the pill, slice the vein, be done with it. :twisted:

Either that or learn to flatten your audio, and stop complaining that there's issues when you use basically a shit ton of mastering plug ins in Live during the recording process, do some of the work arounds suggested and deal with it. I was all willing to throw out ideas for you as you went through the trouble of making a video, but it's apparent that you feel that because you did, the solution must be perfect. From the suggestions of others it seems you would really have to delve into this problem to get something working, others are using Maschine outside of Live, but I just don't think you have the troubleshooting mindset to actually come up with a real solution now that it's obvious the answer isn't simple. Good luck I guess?
The thing is, when you do it in another program like Logic and it works exactly as you'd expect, it's hard to accept that Live just doesn't.

Is this not a problem with any plug-in that has an internal recordable sequencer? It's not a Maschine specific thing I don't think.
Professional Shark Jumper.

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