Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
TechnoLover
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:57 pm

Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by TechnoLover » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:09 am

Hello everybody!

As this is my first message, I would like to say "hello" to everyone of you! I've been reading this forum for months but wasn't ready to take part in it yet!

I've been searching on a lot of boards, and never achieved to find profesionnal people... But here, it seems you are all really skilled in music production and have a good knoweldge!

Here is my request, I am looking for some tips, tutorials,... on "how to produce detroit techno" . I think I am a good producer, really active in the "new scene" and with more than 60 tracks released under a few labels, but my first and only love is the detroit techno but i don't feel good enough to do it... The time I was using loops is definitively done! I really wanna get one step higher and you are for sure THE ONES to help me!

I am currently doing some really good detroit melodical stuff, but I have big issues with doing some good rythmic patterns!

So, here are my concrete questions :

- Can you help me or tell how to make some detroit techno rythmics? (I am using 909 emulations) (some examples would be perfect, I work on Ableton Live)
- Can you tell me how to make a detroit techno bassline?

My influences are DJ Rolando,Underground Resistance, Jeff Mills, Juan Atkins, Carl Craig, ... and my favorite Derrick May and Joey Beltram

Thank you so much! I am happy to have found such people with a BIG knowledge (most of the people on other forums never heard of detroit techno, what a shame...)

I would be really proud to learn from your guys!

Have a nice week,

tw1nstates
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by tw1nstates » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:57 am

Reverse engineering tracks is going to be your friend.

Basic stuff like placement of claps and snares is pretty standard but other than that there's not a lot of tropes.

You gotta get involved and work it out yourself.

Some stuff that will help.

make maps of your favourite tracks in arrange with clips that have nothing in. Use a clip for each sound / easily grouped sounds. Kick, hats, perc, strings, synths etc. this way you will have a variety of structures that you can then fill with loops. You could also then copy the rhythm placements for the various tracks and then adjust them to taste. obviously this is going to give you very generic derivative sounding stuff but if you leanr to copy well then innovating is a logical step on from there.
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave

tw1nstates
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by tw1nstates » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:59 am

also, you could go an buy a copy of Unlocking the Groove

It's pretty dense but you'll get some good stuff from it...
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave

pedroschki
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by pedroschki » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:55 pm

Good suggestion there tw1nstates - never thought of doing that, but sounds worth a try!

störgeräusche
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by störgeräusche » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:06 pm

+1 on unlocking the groove, a really nice a deep book
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agent314
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by agent314 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:08 pm

make maps of your favourite tracks in arrange with clips that have nothing in. Use a clip for each sound / easily grouped sounds. Kick, hats, perc, strings, synths etc. this way you will have a variety of structures that you can then fill with loops. You could also then copy the rhythm placements for the various tracks and then adjust them to taste. obviously this is going to give you very generic derivative sounding stuff but if you leanr to copy well then innovating is a logical step on from there.
This is a great idea. I don't know why I never thought of it before - seems like a great way to get a better sense of what makes a good arrangement.

N3H3C
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by N3H3C » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:38 pm

tw1nstates wrote: make maps of your favourite tracks in arrange with clips that have nothing in. Use a clip for each sound / easily grouped sounds. Kick, hats, perc, strings, synths etc. this way you will have a variety of structures that you can then fill with loops. You could also then copy the rhythm placements for the various tracks and then adjust them to taste. obviously this is going to give you very generic derivative sounding stuff but if you leanr to copy well then innovating is a logical step on from there.
Thats a very good idea!

TechnoLover
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by TechnoLover » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:25 am

Thank you for your help, you guys seem to be pro's ! :D

So, can anybody show me the basics first?

Thank you so much guys!!!

tw1nstates
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by tw1nstates » Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:51 pm

TechnoLover wrote:Thank you for your help, you guys seem to be pro's ! :D

So, can anybody show me the basics first?

Thank you so much guys!!!
Yeah, go and read the book and practice.

Those are the basics.

Learn how to count, learn where the hits are in the bar, place your notes there.

There really isn't an easy way to do this.

Reverse engineering is the easist way.

Also, get an ear training program to help with your understanding of intervals, this will lead you into chords and from this you should be able to transcribe melody and harmony..

Come back in a year and ask some questions :)

Quite honestly though, I could have saved years of messing about whith just following those suggestions. You sound like you want to just do a course like point blank or whatever. Good luck. you'll just end up making derivative sh*t that way and tbh by the time you have made something original and good then the whole scene will have moved and no one will be interested in Detroit / old skool house / deep house whatever is the current flavour de jour. Learning how to analyse stuff and change it yourself will pay much bigger dividends. Obviously that requires work however what good things in life don't.

Don't want to work - become a dj.

Good luck with that though, they are the old version of producers knocking out derivative 10 a penny tracks :)
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave

TechnoLover
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by TechnoLover » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:36 pm

yeah I know man, that's the way I've followed for years... I am not a "beginner producer" as I've already released a good amount of tracks, but as you may know it most of the "recent" stuff is based on loops and that's the big problem...
I've some "good" (far away from a professional engineer) knowledge in mixing, mastering, ... and I am a DJ for some years now (so have no problem on counting, ...) and I am also able to make some good detroit-like melodical stuff but I have big issues with the rythmics...

I know these oldschool styles willl (maybe) be less popular in some year, but as a producer it gives you a more "serious" (underground?) style and my point is that a hybrid between the old styles and the new ones (as the "new" disco vibe) would be the styles of tomorrow!

contakt321
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by contakt321 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:58 pm

The prior suggestions are great.

Another idea for you:

Take 5 songs in the style that you like.
Put one on the timeline in Arrange view
Zoom way in on a 4 bar section
Now, recreate this pattern using similar drum sounds (think 808, and 909 for early Detroit)
Repeat with the 4 other songs

I think this will help you see how and what people were doing, but also help you get insight into the common threads between the tracks.

TechnoLover
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by TechnoLover » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:12 pm

okay will try this ! thank you all for your big knowledge :oops:

TechnoLover
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by TechnoLover » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:02 pm

well, it helped a lot! now it's all about work & time to get more variations in my patterns but it sounds better!

what about the bassline? I guess it's better to use a TB-303 (as bassline not lead of course) but I've no idea of how to make the bassline "pattern" ... Harder to extract it from existing tracks than with the rythmic...

Trypset
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by Trypset » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:14 pm

strat off by sequencing a 4/4 bassline...every quarter note....

then start to eff with the ADSR and synth parameters to make it move around the beat....add filters and effects.

What have you been trying to do to create a bassline?
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Frederik654
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Re: Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

Post by Frederik654 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:42 pm

Don't forget about swing, I read that you use 909 emulations so probably there is a swing knob/setting somewhere but in case you just use 909 808 samples in simpler ..

It's all about swing settings that can make or break some 909 grooves (on the toms), the difficult part is not to exaggerate in such way that instruments still have the chance to get some swing as well.

I don't know anymore but there was someone that posted the 909 swings to add in the groove pool ? Maybe someone still has them ?

When it all swings too much there is no swing at all, just sloppy music :)
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