Who uses presets?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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3phase
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by 3phase » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:26 am

mholloway wrote:It comes from instinct, from a 'musical ear', from sensing and feeling the flow of an arrangement of different pieces, whatever the fuck they might be, presets or farts or whatever, melding together into something new, something bigger than the sum of it's parts, it's own total entity, a fucking song.

and even then, of course, it's all subjective. there's no accounting for taste.

-M

so you are talking about sound design here..when the end result is an original any preset used in it is justified..even sampling is ok than, see Amon Tobin in this regard..

But when its no original? just a copy of a copy of a copy..based on super shiny preset sounds that disguise the minimal skills of the so called author?

i would say anybody has to decide themself if the use of presets is justified and wether one is a happy lamer or a good sport..

In the end of the day the consumers on the floor have a better ear for that than the dj´s.. when the music gets to generic the clubs get empty..less dj´s booked..less records sold..

thats allways the times originators are valued high.. to create a new set of possible presets to aim for.. up to the moment the audience gets bored again.. aso... aso..

In the end of the day there is a clear verdict of the audience against preset use when you have watched the development over 2 decades..

It just dont reacts on the single track.. but on the long term tendencys...
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alex.the.forge
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by alex.the.forge » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:16 am

3phase wrote:
mholloway wrote:
so Mr….....
Waaaaaay too long to re-quote, but wow. How many tracks could you have written in the time it took you to write that post?

3phase, I'm probably not just speaking for myself here but I almost never read any of your posts because they are all way too long and B.) usually not a lot but a jaded, negative diatribe criticising whatever the topic of the thread is and whoever agrees with it. Nobody will be enriched by reading that.

EDIT: since writing that I've read some of your smaller posts and you actually have quite a lot to add, if you didn't write all the arrogant shit criticising everybody then I'd read a lot more! ;-)
Last edited by alex.the.forge on Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

leedsquietman
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by leedsquietman » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:48 am

I'll have to listen to that Fever Ray song - although I don't use it so much these days, I freaking well love my Korg Wavestation vst (I have the legacy digital collection). That was the first synth which really made me jizz my pants back in the day (well the Yamaha SY77 too to a degree), and I could never afford to buy one until it was well past it's heyday and then I had to sell it because I came to Canada with a different mains voltage system and it wasn't exactly a 'carry on' item for travelling with !

The Wavestation still compliments analogue vas and stuff so well, and it actually sounds a lot like the real thing, more so than analogue VAs emulating classic synths do. I suppose Massive, Zebra and Absynth do a similar job, but for pads (especially lush choir and strings type pads) and bell sounds, or multi element sounds, it rules. So now Korg have made it available for $49 only, I highly recommend it to some of you analogue freaks to vary your sound and compliment what you have. It is also less of a CPU hog than Massive or Absynth.
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macmurphy
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by macmurphy » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:50 am

when i do use presets i change them to fit the piece i'm writing.
i have nothing else to add because reading 3phase's negative, snobbish and self aggrandising posts has bored me so much i've almost
slipped into a coma.

7redBl@dder
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by 7redBl@dder » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:05 am

I've finally picked up NI Absynth(£75),what i love about this synth is the mutate button
which lets you take a preset and randomize it to your own taste.
Is this cheating as well? i mean this is a lot of fun and you are coming up with
original sounds after all..

sporkles
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by sporkles » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:13 am

I think 3phase is listed as an example in the Internet Acronym Dictionary, under tl;dr.

7redBl@dder wrote:I've finally picked up NI Absynth(£75),what i love about this synth is the mutate button
which lets you take a preset and randomize it to your own taste.
Is this cheating as well? i mean this is a lot of fun and you are coming up with
original sounds after all..
Damn... Everybody's raving about that mutate button... I got Absynth 4, and I think it's awesome, but now you guys are making
me feel like I'm missing out... 8O I guess I'm eligible for an upgrade, but I really wasn't going to put more money into
software/gear now. I really want a new laptop, capable of running all this stuff! :x

Ehm... Why is the NI site telling me that I'm using Internet Exlplorer 6 and can't access the site, when I'm in fact using
Firefox? I want to know if the upgrade is also 50% off!

Khazul
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by Khazul » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:14 pm

I have to ask how some people here use presets, loops etc? Some seems to think its a case of push a key to run a loop/arp in alchemy, or drop some beat loop in and job done etc?

I use them alot and sample libraries - hey pianos count as presets too. I have to confess to have quite alot of vengeance, loopmasters, primeloops etc loops and samples etc - yes - lots of cheesy, but often nspiring electro and trance sounds and loops in there. A load of ace, alchemy, massive, sylenth1, twin, sound sets. Quite a few commercial soundsets for my TI not to mention am a complete preset whore on the M1 plugin and even a preset junkies with aether too (becuse the extra preset packs actually sound good.)

BUT, in nearly every case using them tends to demand alot more produtcion effort in terms of shaping them into the time and frequency space of your mix. Nearly everything has reverbs tails or some other junk that needs fixing so you can get yor own choice of ambience, groove or little bleepy groove or whatever and makes them all gel. Loops often need warping, enveloping and often drastrically chopping up, perhaps repitching in melodyne etc to get what you want out of them. Using millions of hit samples to make drum rack often ends up with compression eq and filter settings (at least) on nearly every simpler or sampler (or group such as tops etc) in a drum rack.

EQing, gating, compressing or whatever is needed on the resulting parts is often adds up to as much effort as creating a sound on a synth from scratch. But heres the thing, I just dont have enough lifetimes to learn exactly how to get the best out of the synths and samplers I actually use and certainly not to the skill level of some of the folks who make exellent and inspiring presets for many of these synths. Out of the synths and plugins I use, I will claim to perhaps know one of them inside out and thats the virus TI - I had many years to learn the virus. Next up sylenth and ace (ace just appeals because I was used to modulars/semi modulars). I have however spent alot of time working with EQ and compressor, gates etc and so they are the tools I know best (not claiming well, just best out of my choices).

I will probbaly never get into programming massive or alchemy beyond basic tweaks to get rid of some aspect of a sound I dont like, or enhance some aspect that I do like etc, or perhaps tweak the mod and/or note sequence of an arp or mangled loop etc, or with alchemy using it for resynthesis and wierd fx processing etc.

I do think there are two types of people who use presets and especially loops etc
1. those who just plonk them in and make do - because thats all they know how to do (the guy I work with is such a case because hes a musician - actually a guitarist, not a mix enginner etc and gets quickly lost in EQ, dynamics processing and all the detail of mixing and even gets lost in the kind of odd voicing of chords people use with synths and orchestras etc to get fat yet spacious sounds etc. He can find a wierd chord on a guitar no problem, but often getting a similarly good sounding voicing of the same chord on a piano is too much, so he likes loops etc and especially plugins with an instant 'trance' button on them - whatever - hes a good guitarist.

2. those who actually mould the many bits that they use into a whole that is more than the parts - ie a producer and sound/mix engineer - perhaps what the producers among us here might aspire to.

In the end - I dont think it really matters where you get your sounds from (excepting illegal sources) - it realy is the end result that matters - how they come together - do you like it? Do you feel good about it? If your aim is commercial, then do you think it will sell etc? Whats some knob jocky thinks about it - you shouldnt even care. Perhaps you should care more what a non or minimally musical other half thinks about it *if* she can be honest and tell you its shite when it *is* shite :p

I guess some people may have different aims - and be more interested in the process as a learning exercise at their stage of the game than the end music result?

Perhaps ask yourself what you do and or get the most from and most importantly - why?

1. Playing notes? - Your destined to be a preset whore.
2. Tweaking knobs? - You shouldnt be writing - instead mix someone elses shit.

Answer that - then maybe you know which side of the preset war fence you sit on and why :)
Nothing to see here - move along!

sporkles
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by sporkles » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:23 pm

^^

Didn't read everything, but I think I got the gist of it. I would never use a preset without tweaking some aspects of it, unless,
of course, I were building my entire track around that one preset. If I try to incorporate a preset into a track, the first
thing to do, is to get rid of (or adjust) reverb and delay effects, because they almost never fit with the overall reverbs
and delays, or the "space", if you will, of your track. I never use the built in delays of a VST - I always use a send instead.
Another thing I'd keep in mind is the fact that a lot of the really effect heavy patches that sound completely otherworldly
in isolation tend to not only sound a lot dafter in a mix, but also drown other sounds, so that the mix quickly turns into one
big mud. Less is definitely more.

macmurphy
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by macmurphy » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:21 pm

^^ this

^^^^ and that

it's not what goes in, it's what comes out.

Lazos
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by Lazos » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:48 pm

Yeah, good points all around.

But the strongest point that has already been made numerous times is it really depends on the music and the people making the music.

The only 3rd party synth that I own is Zebra, for instance. I was curious when I saw a thread in this forum (2007). Checked it out and was blown away (at the time) by the presets. I've used some since in my music (with a little modification). But I'm really glad the presets were there to show me what an awesome tool this synth is. I've since designed a small library of my own sounds that I have gone to first for inspiration.

But, I'm atypical in a musical sense. I only "produce" my own music. And I now build my tracks completely with acoustic string, wind and percussion looping, with my only synth or sampled sounds coming from drum racks.

I'm not involved in any film or video projects that have a strict deadline. If that were the case, I'd feel no qualms about using unadulterated presets. Just make it more about the composition than the featuring of the sound, and I think its fine.

alex.the.forge
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by alex.the.forge » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:14 am

Lazos wrote: I'm not involved in any film or video projects that have a strict deadline. If that were the case, I'd feel no qualms about using unadulterated presets. Just make it more about the composition than the featuring of the sound, and I think its fine.
that's another good point - when things are needed quickly, of course you use presets. I've even heard Garageband loops in TV ads.

TheDrop2
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by TheDrop2 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:47 am

Use both, making stuff from scratch and presets/tweaked presets. I can guarantee some big artists and respectable producers have used/ still use presets. Who is really going to be the guy who even checks to see if you use a preset anyway... there are millions of presets out there lol... and if u found out that someone like david guetta only used presets would that really effect his success & respect as an artist? He would still be out there doing shows and creating amazing music for the whole world to enjoy.



Being able to create from scratch/edit existing presets just gives you more flexibility as a producer and if you master it, then you have the advantage of being able to create anything sound that your hear, and create exactly what is in your head and want to hear. SO LEARN IT! spend a month or two just toying around on operator and other third party plugins that you like.

If there are any hardcore sound designers out there, i would love to hear what you think is the most advanced plugin out there & also would love if some one can could help me out a little, youtube only does so much.

alex.the.forge
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by alex.the.forge » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:02 am

TheDrop2 wrote:... if u found out that someone like david guetta only used presets would that really effect his success & respect as an artist? .
"big name people" like him use huge chunks of other people's songs lifted straight from the record. presets aren't going to show up on anybody's radar except the uber geeks like us who populate forums like this.

Madonna used an Abba track, Janet Jackson sampled Sly Stone, Oasis didn't even bother sampling John lennon's imagine, they just played it themselves with a couple of notes missing…..

1 thing they all have in common is they are stinking rich not caring a fuck how original they are while we are sat here on an internet forum being sad twats who worry about presets.

I think I chose the wrong group. Don't you kids make the same mistake!
:lol:

we need a new acronym meme…. GOTFI = get off the fucking internet!

3phase
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by 3phase » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:21 am

alex.the.forge wrote:who populate forums like this.

Madonna used an Abba track, Janet Jackson sampled Sly Stone, Oasis didn't even bother sampling John lennon's imagine, they just played it themselves with a couple of notes missing…..

and whos tracks has abba used? and sly stone sampled which other artist? and john lenon? just because people do lame things dont justifies doing them aswell. its like shitting in the little forrest before the city. and because you do it everybody starts doing it..after 1 year the litlle forrest is called a swamp and dont smells good anymore.
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3phase
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Re: Who uses presets?

Post by 3phase » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:29 am

alex.the.forge wrote:

Waaaaaay too long to re-quote, but wow. How many tracks could you have written in the time it took you to write that post?
none.. i type very quick
3phase, I'm probably not just speaking for myself here but I almost never read any of your posts because they are all way too long
that only looks like it because your reading is too slow..
getting into reading books as a hobby helps. there are wonderfull books out there.. you will love it.
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