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 Post subject: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:38 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:44 am
Posts: 32
Hi everyone, I thought I'd start this thread (as a continuation of an earlier discussion) as a spot to share Live Looping information. There seem to be a number of people doing this, and it's a difficult topic to search for, given the ambiguities of the words "live" and "looping" on this forum. This thread is about using Ableton Live in a Live Looping scenario, be it guitar, vocals, or any other live instruments/software instruments. Of course, all are welcome! My hope is that this will be a valuable resource for those like myself getting started looping in Ableton Live as well as seasoned pros, and everyone in between.

Here is the link to the discussion we've begun: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=154748

Feel free to post about previous topics or address your own here. Hope you'll join the discussion and share about your own rig and how you use it. So, I guess I'll begin...

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Live 8.2.1 (XP) :: RME Fireface UC :: PT LE 8 :: MBox 2 Mini :: Axiom 49 Classic :: Roland FC-300


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 Post subject: Re: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:41 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:44 am
Posts: 32
Okie dokie,

So my Roland FC-300 came in, unfortunately until I get my new interface I'm stuck running it to the MIDI In on my Axiom 49 (classic), as my MBox 2 Mini lacks MIDI I/O. Speaking of which, the buttons on my Axiom just plain suck...I always have to hit the transport controls multiple times just right before they respond...weak. Anyway, the FC-300 works like a champ so far. Very responsive, feels just like my RC-50, and WOW, looping in Live is tits compared to the RC-50. I'm using clips for drumbeats, so I just have my loopers set to not control song and simply follow tempo. With my quantize set to global (1 bar) it's so easy to push the button and know it will begin and end the loop just right, as long as I don't eff it up haha.

1)So now, I'm wondering if any of you are using the FC-300. I understand Live likes to get midi notes instead of CC's, though it's been fine using it in control mode with CC's thus far. And I haven't found a way to send MIDI notes from the FC-300 yet.

2)Also, regardless of your controller, I'd love to hear what assignments others are using (e.g. Pedal 1-Looper 1 Multifunction, Pedal 2- Looper 1 Stop, etc).

3)Anyone using a MIDI translator app? If so, what kind of things do you control with it?

4)Is there any way to map one pedal for "press to stop looper, hold to undo"? That would be legit!

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-Ian

Live 8.2.1 (XP) :: RME Fireface UC :: PT LE 8 :: MBox 2 Mini :: Axiom 49 Classic :: Roland FC-300


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 Post subject: Re: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:45 pm
Posts: 213
Location: Sarasota, FL
I am a GT-10 looper but am trying to incorporate that into Abelton. Lots to learn and arrange!

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 Post subject: Re: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:56 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 290
I figured it was relevant, so I will share a little of what I do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duMdpJ4_HhI

A couple of years ago, when our other guitarist quit, I happened to hear that ableton live 8 would feature a looper. I decided to start fooling with it. I am pretty comfortable with it now. I record beatboxing and loop it, then add layers of bass and guitar, and whatever else comes to mind, all using Ableton Live and a Behringer midi foot controller. Jekblad also does this stuff, and has been doing it longer than me, but I am available if anyone has questions regarding live looping of guitar/vocals. I will help if I can.

This video is really simple on the looping stuff, it wasn't made as a demo of the looping though, just another band video, but like I said, it was relevant.

I'll help if I can.

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 Post subject: Re: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:30 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:45 pm
Posts: 213
Location: Sarasota, FL
Nice Fizmarble. I covered Ice Ice baby in my punk band when I was a teenager. Good job bro. Cool stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:42 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 290
Gaetano CAPUANO wrote:
Nice Fizmarble. I covered Ice Ice baby in my punk band when I was a teenager. Good job bro. Cool stuff.


Awesome! Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:36 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:14 am
Posts: 21
I've decided to take the plunge into Live looping. My band's currently a 3 piece, guitar/keys(me), bass, and a drummer. We're planning on adding a singer, but want to nail some stuff down before adding another member.

Gear:
Macbook Pro 13"
MOTU Ultralite
Roland FC-200 + 6 extension switches
Launchpad(sitting untouched 99.99% of the time)

I'm currently going into a guitarDI track which is feeding my Mesa Tremoverb via return track. The audio is also going out to another track named "Looper" which has a midi-mapped looper on it. This is working great except for the fact that I'm planning on using the looper with some synth tracks too. With that in mind, any reason I can't just put a generic looper on a return track and use it for all instruments?

Anyone have any tips on sensibly setting up your foot controller for clip launching? I'm using 4 of the extension switches for the looper, so that leaves the entire FC-200 for the session view. I'm using CC's because using notes means I lose two of my buttons because it's trying to emulate a keyboard(e.g., no c#.) I'm currently mapping some of live's globals(stop, rec, etc.) along with the scene up and down buttons, then mapping the clip select/launch and a clip stop button for the guitar track.

I'm able to work this stuff somewhat competently when I'm alone, but it usually goes to hell when the bassist and drummer show up. We just ditch the live looping thing and work on songs without it. I'd like to make more progress here.

In short:

1. Any advice on setting up a floor pedal board for controlling BOTH live clips AND at least one instance of the live looper effect. Extra bonus points if the pedalboard is a Roland FC-200 or similar

FWIW, I'm also planning on using the same floor pedal board for controlling hardware FX(external audio FX, h3000, LexiconPCM80, etc.) ON/OFF and guitar monitoring ON/OFF.


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 Post subject: Re: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:44 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:44 am
Posts: 32
Hey catsandwich,

I don't see any reason you couldn't run both guitar and synth to the same looper send track. The only real advantage I can think of would be stopping/starting guitar/synth parts individually or being able to set their Pan settings apart in a stereo set up.

Unfortunately, I just got my FC-300 so I'm still in the process of learning it. If you're trying to map a pedal to turn something on/off, certain devices need the pedal set to "latch" instead of "momentary" for instance, "Device On/Off" control I had to set to "latch" on the FC-300, otherwise I'd turn on the effect on only as long as I held the pedal down (which could be cool in some situations). Hope this helps some.

In terms of playing with the band, do y'all practice to a click track/metronome? Or do you set a loop and have them play along? If you're just getting into looping, it might be best to try to just work with one loop and no overdubs while you learn with the other guys. The more time you spend with it and learn it the easier it'll be to bring the info to the bandmates.

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-Ian

Live 8.2.1 (XP) :: RME Fireface UC :: PT LE 8 :: MBox 2 Mini :: Axiom 49 Classic :: Roland FC-300


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 Post subject: Re: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:14 am
Posts: 21
ItsAllSticky wrote:
Hey catsandwich,

I don't see any reason you couldn't run both guitar and synth to the same looper send track. The only real advantage I can think of would be stopping/starting guitar/synth parts individually or being able to set their Pan settings apart in a stereo set up.

Unfortunately, I just got my FC-300 so I'm still in the process of learning it. If you're trying to map a pedal to turn something on/off, certain devices need the pedal set to "latch" instead of "momentary" for instance, "Device On/Off" control I had to set to "latch" on the FC-300, otherwise I'd turn on the effect on only as long as I held the pedal down (which could be cool in some situations). Hope this helps some.

In terms of playing with the band, do y'all practice to a click track/metronome? Or do you set a loop and have them play along? If you're just getting into looping, it might be best to try to just work with one loop and no overdubs while you learn with the other guys. The more time you spend with it and learn it the easier it'll be to bring the info to the bandmates.


The benefit of the send approach would be the ability to use the same looper with my guitar, the bass, and the synths. The downside of course is that the return's out is my guitar amp so those instruments would be coming out my guitar amp. If I want them sent to the PA or bass amp, I suppose I'll need to either dedicate a looper on that path, or simply assign the return's output elsewhere assuming I don't want to use the guitar with the looper at the same time.

I noticed that latch issue. It's a total bitch. I've got a memoryman delay pedal that I was planning on using the FC-200 to turn it on/off with. I'm using CC right now and they are momentary. I could use midi notes, but then I lose two buttons. I did end up buying 2 boss latch pedals that I was planning on using for this purpose. Not sure if the track enable buttons require latch, but if they do, I'd use the other switch for guitar input monitoring ON.

I hadn't thought about "scripting" the pedal pushes using a midi track in arrangement view. Unfortunately, that would force me to use midi notes instead of CC, at least I think it would.

I heard someone say Live prefers midi notes, not CC. Anyone know why someone would say this?

We don't practice with a metronome, but we also haven't been doing the live looping thing. I've sent enough click through the monitors for us to use that as a reference when live looping. The drummer's actually pretty good at playing to a click. The problem is that I just forget how to use this technical shit when it's not just me. You're right, I need to simplify if I want this to work in a group. Maybe, set session tempo by recording a 1st loop, then play everything else live except for the times I need that 1st loop. That should be pretty easy.


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 Post subject: Re: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:18 am
Posts: 50
Does anybody know how to command the launching of looper. I would like to assign a 2, or 4 bar pre roll before recording so it doesn't just come on when I press record. Some time it blinks as a pre roll, and other time it just comes on?


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 Post subject: Re: The (Un)Official Live Looping Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:36 pm
Posts: 3764
Location: Northwest Nowhere
this is great!

i got into looping with Ambiloops (can i get a..) and found my way to Live from there...i was pretty disappointed with Lives looper and dreamt that ambiloops was a plugin! so i let Looper drop and focused on my bass playing and learning the ins/outs of LIve..end self indulgent history.

Just yesterday i got looper out again, fun fun...with nanoKey i set it up to make drum loops by mapping to individual hits on individual tracks, then grouping those tracks and dropping the looper on the group...works great imo, by collapsing the group all you see is the looper...i have 8 keys for drum hits and assigned some grey keys to varios transport of the looper: main toggle, undo (which i use alot!) and clear (which i use alot!lol) and also the metronome on/off...once i got a proper looping beat going, which only took 147 tries, i jammed along on bass...also, switching cc mode im mapped to play an instance of operator on the nano too

anyway..my goal also is to do this live, just open mics or whatever

rickdorr i tried an answer on your other thread with the same Q, gonna test that now...using the count in in prefences and see if it applies to the looper....


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