NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Khazul
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Khazul » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:05 pm

abletontrainer.com wrote:
Pasha wrote: Personally I think that all of this 64bit thing is pure hype, over estimated and not necessarily useful.
there was a good write up about it in the latest SOS - more or less showing that it is useful if you want to use really big sample libraries with things like trillian where you want to address lots of RAM at once, but in most other cases it's still a way off being that hugely important
TBH I would be suprised of folks were using Live for the kind of really heavy weight music creation that pushes memory usage to rediculous levels - I tried a quick test yesterday to push live to it memory limit - got to 3.6GB on Win7/64 with a rediculous number of instances of the biggest sample sets in sampler, kontakt and battery (50+) before it died. That included the largest multisample kios I could find in batery, Abbey road, alecias keys, the other big add pianos, eps etc, session strings stuff in kontakt and all different to avoid an chance of sample pooling between instances (dont know if kontakt even does that).

I cant ever imagine actually needing to load that much up in normal use - not even if I landed a job scoring movies - and TBH, then I would be looking at using something a bit better suited to the task - Cubase 6, Nuendo etc perhaps (as a PC user).

To my mind the argument in favour of moving to 64 bit is more about moving along the VST technology tree and preparing the way for the future rather than providing an immediate huge benefit. Of course you may get a small performance increase as well going fully native 64 bit, but a viable 64 bit application at this point in time still really needs a 32 bit VST bridge which TBH might be quite a pain to get right.

For anyone who does need to push ableton Live beyond a couple of Gigs right now - the answer seems clear - get yourself a decent Win7/64 machine (or perhaps mac, but I havnt seen evidence of mac users being able to push memory use that high?).
Nothing to see here - move along!

studiologic
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by studiologic » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:53 pm

i well i have a vista 64 machine...

try loading a bass patch from trillian, a few synth patches for omisphere, drum from stylus rmx, piano from east/west (gold collect), and how about 2 patches from electriity...

that is total of just 7 tracks and see what happens to ableton live (again on vista 64 machine w/ 9 GB of ram)...

you may not need all that power but there are some of us who do...

i take it you never use the video function in ableton live either...

forgot to add...

all those instruments below in my tool box come in 64-bit... why not have 64-bit ableton live?

why not be able to sit down with ableton live and not be concerned with Ram usages...

seems logical...

smaucher
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by smaucher » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:47 pm

just forget it! there will be no Live 9 in the next few months, even not this year probably. 64bit? forget it. I've already moved on to something else.

have a look at the lastest beta. minimal changes - two moths old. ridiculous.

WTF are they doing?
you start bleeding - I start sceaming
propaganda 1985

Khazul
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Khazul » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:56 pm

studiologic wrote:i well i have a vista 64 machine...

try loading a bass patch from trillian, a few synth patches for omisphere, drum from stylus rmx, piano from east/west (gold collect), and how about 2 patches from electriity...

that is total of just 7 tracks and see what happens to ableton live (again on vista 64 machine w/ 9 GB of ram)...

you may not need all that power but there are some of us who do...

i take it you never use the video function in ableton live either...

forgot to add...

all those instruments below in my tool box come in 64-bit... why not have 64-bit ableton live?
Well I just loaded up a current project to see whats in it - 3 instances of trillian one of them being the marcus all finger electric base, the other two being synth sample sets. 4 instances of kontakt in Kore, with alecias keys, scarbee mk1, sessin strings and all of my string sample sets (all very big), accoustic soul kit in battery 3 (another huge multi-sample set) + instances of massive, alchemy and sylenth1, 5 instances fo reaktor fx on sends + 1 guitar rig on a send + instances of various other quality reverbs and other fx and all quite happy.

It will go up abit when I get thre festival footage to work with as well (doing something for a festival in spain).

TBH - if I had half a brain I would probably be doing this in Cubase 4 as it is way better suited to this kind of job, but I aint got around reinstalling it since the machine rebuild and getting v6 soon, however Live seems to be coping with it perfectly well for now.

So no, I dont normally run some crazy number of instances of sample libraries, but the above is increasingly becomming common for me and seems quite workable on win7/64 - however I really dont consider a programme like ableton live as an ideal tool for this kind of job TBH this is cubase/nuendo type territory and Ill prably migrate this project to Cubase 6 when i get it - but that for workflow reasons more than anything else (linear workflow in cubase is much better - weheras nlive is way bettter for a non-linear creative workflow) - even if C6 is 64 bit, however several of my plugins are not.

Of course it would be very nice to have 64 bit native Live, but I dont feel desparate for it as a user - especially after the buggy v8 nightmare - doing 64 bit + VST3 etc is a huge architectural upheaval - probably way mroe so thenmax4live + serato bridge was - for satanberg this has been a large part of the the cubase V4+V5 cycles were about, with V6 finally representing the end point of that migration and a chance to even move a little (to VST 3.5).

The techy software developer part of me thinks its about time ableton moved on before they get left behind (as currently they are getting way way behind) and I am aware of several advantages to it, but I allready chose to throw more hardware at the problem while software catches up - so perhaps I aint as desparate. Im not defindign ableton - at all, but I dont feel this is somethingg to scream about in terms of impact on day to day use - there are IMHO way way more important daya to day issues to worry about in terms of Live ongoing development that are more important to enable me to use it for what its best at.
Nothing to see here - move along!

friend_kami
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by friend_kami » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:13 pm

so how about loading clips to ram?
if you have, say, 16gb of ram and live can adress all of them you could use 12 of those just for loading clips to ram for example.
id use that, how about you?

there are numerous reasons why ableton need to seriously consider 64bit support, and soon.
if they want to attract customers who needs a production platform they surely need to add 64bit support.
ever worked on a 90+ tracks project before?
how about a 90+ tracks project with plugins?

try it, see how your precious ram holds up.
90 tracks is not alot when you are doing sound design to my knowledge.
ableton has a golden oppurtunity to take advantage of their rapid soudndesign capabilities and attract even more customers; extend rack functionality, extend routing etc (such as beeing able to route the phse from operator 1 to oscillator B on operator 2, beeing able to create huge modular monsters and emulate classic synthesizers and whatnots), and let live take advantage of the huge ram banks people have these days, attracting sound esigners and scorers even more so then they are now.

live performers love live for its focus on live performance features, sound designers loves it for its fast sound designers capabilities and producers loves it for both of those, but a shift is in place as the competition is looking at live and thinking "shit, we can do that. + we already have all the other features their users wants.. hello new customers!" and succeeding in shifting users; i know several users who shifted already, several who are on their way (me included) and several who will shift unless ableton delivers next time around.

64bit support is a huge part in crucial update path and if you cant see why then you simply arent working hard enough with your software.
its not hard to max out live on a 4gb ramstick. at all.

102455
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by 102455 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:21 pm

smaucher wrote:two moths old
Is that including the egg, larva and pupa stages?

studiologic
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by studiologic » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:30 pm

those synth patches and marcus miller patches as small compared to the hardcore rock bass patch in trillian (check it out for yourself).... again... compare the size of east/west strings to session strings... compare an instance of battery (which i own) to stylus rmx... the p90 les paul patch in Electri6ity is .69 GB... with most rock songs you need multiple guitar patches...

being "pretty" techy myself... DBA that works on a AIX box with 8 nodes and can program in C, C+, C++, perl, awk, sed, unix/store procedures and "all" udb utilities for a data warehouse project... i think it is time for ableton live to be 64-bit... plus, ableton themselves know that there are memory problems/issues with the current version of live...

plus, if Reaper a $40 program can be 64-bit why cant a company like ableton do the same...

fisto
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by fisto » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:59 pm

smaucher wrote:just forget it! there will be no Live 9 in the next few months, even not this year probably. 64bit? forget it. I've already moved on to something else.

have a look at the lastest beta. minimal changes - two moths old. ridiculous.

WTF are they doing?
that's what I've been asking for weeks now :?:
And no info to the seemingly desperate users here. I guess that we can just keep guessing oooooorrrrrrrrr,
Abes???????

Not a cool move from ya!

smaucher
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by smaucher » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:28 pm

this.
you start bleeding - I start sceaming
propaganda 1985

friend_kami
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by friend_kami » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:04 am

smaucher wrote:just forget it! there will be no Live 9 in the next few months, even not this year probably. 64bit? forget it. I've already moved on to something else.

have a look at the lastest beta. minimal changes - two moths old. ridiculous.

WTF are they doing?

id rather have them work for several months and release a beta every now and then that has a big list of fixes, then finally release a point up date that will ROCK YOUR SOCKS OFF, then to have a beta eery 2 weeks with one bugfix and a point update that doesnt work.

smaucher
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by smaucher » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:37 am

whatever. but Ableton's information policy is actually not what I would expect, though.
you start bleeding - I start sceaming
propaganda 1985

danger
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by danger » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:19 pm

One thing that you load bunch of samplers and one thing when you start to use them, having 50+ tracks with effects, routing, lotsa clips, now then you can run pretty fast into memory limits, which occurs in a simple crash.
2 months old is the last version and what are they doing? Are you serious?
and what does VST3 bring you need it so much?

dj_huck
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by dj_huck » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:43 pm

lot of namm announcements

Piplodocus
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Piplodocus » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:05 am

smaucher wrote:have a look at the lastest beta. minimal changes - two moths old. ridiculous.

WTF are they doing?
Maybe they're taking their time to get it as right as possible? Once they have then they can concentrate on L9 properly. Theres not much point in releasing un update every month to cries of "it still doesn't work!".

Is anyone on beta? Is anyone having problems with it? If so then they may be working on those...
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Mac OSX: 10.8.2, Live Suite: 9.0.2 (64-bit) Live user since:v5 (Above now has an APC40, 8GB RAM and a Diezel 212F Cab but currently too lazy to re-draw it all)

Angstrom
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Angstrom » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:05 pm

Ableton are very secretive, but if there has been a pause on the betas it's because they spotted something. That thing / those things have obviously taken quite a while to address.

The whole point of these point-release betas is to address edge-case issues and add under-the-hood functionality. You have to be careful that in fixing one thing for one set of users you don't break it for somebody else. They are being careful, you should be glad.

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