NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
JuanSOLO
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by JuanSOLO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:56 pm

fisto wrote:
smaucher wrote:just forget it! there will be no Live 9 in the next few months, even not this year probably. 64bit? forget it. I've already moved on to something else.

have a look at the lastest beta. minimal changes - two moths old. ridiculous.

WTF are they doing?
that's what I've been asking for weeks now :?:
And no info to the seemingly desperate users here. I guess that we can just keep guessing oooooorrrrrrrrr,
Abes???????

Not a cool move from ya!

It may be a wise move made by Ableton. As much as I'd like to see some new features or get some news about Live9, I am not looking forward to shelling out more money for a new version out of excitement only to find out it crashes all the time while waiting for updates and betas in hopes of something stable enough to work with.

Since 8.2 I have had no issues. I have no problems making tunes with Live, and I am enjoying pushing it's limits right now after the last year of ups and downs. I know some are still at their wits end with buggyness, but I bet many feel like Live 8 has stabilized for them. It's not Ableton's fault that users constantly push their machines to the edge of their performance abilities. Sure 64bit would enhance things, but my guess is it's not ready, and if thats the case I am thankful they have quit implementing things they are not ready for. Are you guys making the same complaints to computer manufactures. I mean really, if computers came standard with optic connections and cheap SSD drives, many of your sampling issues would be resolved. Latency might be reduced if everyone would jump on USB 3?

I finally quit being desperate about software releases, and Ableton are the straw that broke the camels back with that one. NI finally released an update of Reaktor after 5 years, and still no news about a new version. Companies like Adobe and Autodesk kill customers with new versions that only have major/usefull new features every now and then. I am glad to see Ableton slowing it down a bit and I hope it's because it takes time, patience, and practice to do things right, not desperation.

rutgermuller
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by rutgermuller » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:46 pm

Multichannel (surround) output, please :).

LoopStationZebra
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by LoopStationZebra » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:56 pm

JuanSOLO wrote: Companies like Adobe and Autodesk kill customers with new versions that only have major/usefull new features every now and then.

But the great thing there is that they aren't features you've missed; that other companies have implemented but they are behind on per se. As you said, they are useful. Their bug rates are also some of the lowest I've ever seen; they seem to both have superb beta programs.

They aren't relying on new versions to FIX bugs AND contain cool new stuff.
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

JuanSOLO
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by JuanSOLO » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:14 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:
JuanSOLO wrote: Companies like Adobe and Autodesk kill customers with new versions that only have major/usefull new features every now and then.

But the great thing there is that they aren't features you've missed; that other companies have implemented but they are behind on per se. As you said, they are useful. Their bug rates are also some of the lowest I've ever seen; they seem to both have superb beta programs.

They aren't relying on new versions to FIX bugs AND contain cool new stuff.
I said useful every now and then. For the most part all the boasted features in the new Photoshop I would never use, they are gimmicks, and I am not alone in that. Same for a lot of Autodesk stuff. "SOME" are useful, most of them gimmicks.

You also have to consider Ableton is hardly the size of Adobe or Autodesk, and thank GOD they only charge a percentage of what companies like that do. SHEESH, imagine if Live Suite cost 2grand, and they released new versions every year. Even if there were very few bugs you'd be breaking the bank trying to keep up.

ethios4
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by ethios4 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:07 pm

Considering how long it's been since Live 8, I fully expect Live 9 to feature the fabled ground-up rewrite needed to allow us to record automation in session view. I can't think of anything else that would take this long. My guess (very speculative) is that they rewrite from the ground up, then release a Live 8 version of the re-write as the ultimate bug-fix for Live 8 customers, and release Live 9 with 64-bit support, new fx, new features, etc.

Angstrom
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Angstrom » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:28 pm

As has been said before, full rewrites just mean new bugs. Oh, and old bugs, coming back from the dead.

Somebody posted a link to an article about the "total rewrite", which was pretty amusing, and accurate.


[edit]
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ ... 00069.html

from this post
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 5#p1244825

ethios4
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by ethios4 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:55 pm

True true. I was just thinking about the whole "record automation in session" rewrite that was mentioned long ago. New bugs of course.

Angstrom
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Angstrom » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:36 pm

Re: "record automation in session"

it's not really a "full rewrite" needed, it's more about a new way of session/arrangement working. A quantum leap in terms of functionality for us, but probably a case of amending code rather than scrapping the whole thing and starting again.

lots of big chunks of Live have been rewritten over the years, bit by bit. You can actually see some evidence of this work when you wander around the resources folder, especially if you like decompiling things ;)
They will most likely be working on recording automation in session, and hopefully to a brilliant plan which makes sure whatever changes they make will bring more rewards elsewhere. But I very much doubt that they'll "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

I think a lot of the time taken so far, the big gap, has been about installing some new working practices over there - they grew pretty fast and so it was time to re-assess and streamline their working methodology. So it wasn't just the code than needed an audit, it was the processes which produced the code. or something. Hell, I have no idea really. Perhaps they are all playing angry birds, high on Mephedrone.

ethios4
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by ethios4 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:58 pm

That makes a lot of sense. I, for one, have not missed the yearly update. I'm still trucking along in Live 8 just fine, although I would LOVE proper session view recording of course.

Piplodocus
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Piplodocus » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:46 pm

Mine works! I definitely don't want a rewrite!

Moody
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Moody » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:26 am

Piplodocus wrote:
Mine works! I definitely don't want a rewrite!
+1
Ableton’s engineers are hard
at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.

Forge.
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Forge. » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:42 am

Angstrom wrote:Perhaps they are all playing angry birds, high on Mephedrone.
this.

Forge.
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Forge. » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:22 am

ethios4 wrote:Considering how long it's been since Live 8, I fully expect Live 9 to feature the fabled ground-up rewrite needed to allow us to record automation in session view. .....
moved my reply due to relevance in the other thread....

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 2#p1254082

fuggit.... condensed version:

my guess is "rewrite" is not talking about the whole of Live, but just the automation system, because there are clearly already a lot of flaws in the way it works that need to be addressed and have been there for a long time now.

So I think what we are looking at is a major, long overdue, overhaul of the entire automation system.

For example:

1. you still can't record clips into the arranger separately to the automation. This means any time you change one while you are recording the other you have to go back and undo or delete the one you didn't want. Whether we just need 2 record buttons, or whether we need a traditional "read, write, touch" type system I'm not sure. I really like the immediacy of Live in this respect, but we definitely need more control. In either case it desperately needs an overhaul.

2. we still don't have any proper curves and automation is still really fiddly to work with, with no way of constraining the direction of break points as you drag them and no way of entering in proper values.

3. Back to arrange per track - this is something that could make a huge difference to the way we work with automation, and even for performing live and I even remember Robert from Ableton once saying he has been nagging them about it since the year dot. So even people who work for Ableton don't get what they want a lot of the time!

4. Session automation - put against the backdrop of the above points, it's just one part of the bigger issue of automation in general, so what I am waiting for is an overhaul of the entire automation system - not a rewrite of Live itself.

Tone Deft
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Tone Deft » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:31 am

1, 2. yeah, beat to death

3. sounds confusing as hell.

4. sounds like #1.

thanks for the condensed version, the other post was TL;DR of 2011 so far.



honestly, unless you write DAW software for a living STFU on the topic. this speculation is totally retarded.

if you write software for a living you know rewrites are a great way to mangle a project into layoffs.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Forge.
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Re: NAMM 2011 :: Ableton Live 9

Post by Forge. » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:48 am

edit.... :arrow:

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