MIDI Scale effect and minor scales

[jimdrake]

Hi,

Is it me, or are the MIDI Scale effect 'Minor' presets doing something funny?

If I choose the 'C Minor' or 'C Minor Harmonic' presets, Live flattens my Ab to a G. And in my world an Ab is allowed in a C Minor scale.

Have my presets been screwed?

[longjohns]

i would have to agree with you on this

?

[longjohns]

I just checked a few of the scale presets I've done myself (major an mel minor modes), and I must admit I'm guilty of some of the same errors!

What I suppose has happened in this case is to focus on remapping the white keys to the appropriate notes, but forgetting to consider how the black keys are treated.

[UKRuss]

I don't get that, minor scale intervals are minor scale intervals, nothing to do with black or white notes.

[jimdrake]

it seems like whoever made the presets designed them so that they OUTPUT notes in the chosen scale.

ie. you can mash keys in an un-musical manor and output something musical.

the presets do not take into account how you PLAY into the midi effect. ie, if i play a C MINOR scale into the preset C MINOR my playing should be let through un-altered.

but this is not the case, in the case of C Minor an Ab (black note) is in they key yet it is not 'allowed through'

[chapelier fou]

I am not in front of ableton, but i think you may be mistaken. Shouldn't you simply change the Root note of the scale effect ?
Isn't it a preset for A minor ?

[chapelier fou]

forget it. Almost never used scale, you should know better than me. Good luck !

[broc]

Yes, the 'C Minor' preset is obviously wrong.
The second orange square of the G line should be moved up to the Ab line.

[mojofunk]

I find it difficult to grok what the grid in the scale presets represents - and have found very few conversations regarding it. Can anyone enlighten me as to how to interperet it? Thanks!

[longjohns]

picture it as notes coming in one edge, hitting an orange block and then taking a 90 degree turn and leaving out the other edge

[oddstep]

I'm not sure which is stranger... ableton supplying a scale device that is incorrect or no one posting about for years. Is there a lot of techno being released with inappropriate sixths? C minor is for losers anyway.

[hoffman2k]

Been meaning to update my collection of Chords and Scales. Probably as good a time as any.

http://www.thecovertoperators.org/Live- ... for-live-8

The updated pack requires Live 8.1 or higher. It contains 62 Chord and 81 Scale presets. Including a correct Minor Scale. All the Presets have a comment attached that shows more information about the chord/scale in question.

[UKRuss]

Yep, was going to mention your pack Hoff, very tidy work.

[arafel]

Cheers Hoffman.. TY for all your efforts here.

[jimdrake]

I find it difficult to grok what the grid in the scale presets represents - and have found very few conversations regarding it. Can anyone enlighten me as to how to interperet it? Thanks!

there are 12 semitones in an octave.

so the grid is 12x12.

horizontal rows represent what is OUTPUT from the effect.

if there is an orange blob in a row then you could potentially get output on that semitone. the lowest row is the root note and increases in pitch as you move up the grid.

so, if you have a horizontal line of orange blobs, you would only ever get output on one note. if you have a straight diagonal line, bottom left to top right, you could potentially get output on any note.

the vertical columns represent the midi input and how notes are mapped to the output. the root note is on the left and pitch increases as you move to the right.

so again, if you have a horizontal line of blobs, you see that every potential input note gets mapped to the same output note. if you have a diagonal line then each input note gets mapped to the same output note and so does not alter anything.

if you look at the presets shipped with live, you get the idea. if you choose 'C Minor' preset, and count left to right, and get to the 9th column, this is Ab. If you look up that column and see where the orange blog lies, you see it is not on the 9th row. the orange blob is on the 8th row. So, if you play in an Ab it is mapped to output a G.

This is the problem because an Ab is in the key of C Minor and so if you get pianist to play in a C Minor scale their Ab is going to be missing and so is going to piss them off!