The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Mister36
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The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by Mister36 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:54 pm

Of course, consumer headphones and studio/monitoring headphones are very different beasts made for very different purposes, but is there any way of finding out what specifically makes my consumer headphones sound "better"? What are they doing to my frequency response curve?!?!? :P

oddstep
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by oddstep » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:23 pm

attenuating high and low frequencies ?

swishniak
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by swishniak » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:27 pm

plug some in and find out :mrgreen:

3phase
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by 3phase » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:38 pm

just make a good mix and dont care about "consumer headphones" they are just like studio headphones, just a bit more shitty..

a well balanced mix will surrive the shitty treatmemt better than one with some unneeded peaks.. so we use the better speakers to judge to make theese balnced mix, and the shitty headphones benefit form that..


you cant mix for a shitty headphone.. beacause..for which headphone you shall mix than? to have a mix that works on all types of shitty headphones and speakers it hast to be just the wright mix.. in ideal mixed on ideal speakers in an room with ideal acoustics
Last edited by 3phase on Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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oddstep
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by oddstep » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:53 pm

exactly

Mister36
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by Mister36 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:39 am

Thank you all for responding.
oddstep wrote:attenuating high and low frequencies ?
I'm not sure what you mean. Wouldn't that leave a very "middly" sound?

swishniak wrote:plug some in and find out :mrgreen:
I have and this is what made me wonder. I have a pair of Technics (RP-F200) headphones that I use for leisure listening and a pair of Vic Firth headphones (SIH1) that I use for monitoring when recording and as an alternate mixing tool.

I knew they would sound very different with the same input but I couldn't believe how different. Very different. Just got me wondering... It's common knowledge that monitors (and, as much as possible, monitoring headphones) endeavour to give as flat a frequency response as possible but what is it in particular that normal hi-fi speakers and headphones do?

3phase wrote:just make a good mix and dont care about "consumer headphones" they are just like studio headhones just a bit more shitty..

a wel balanced mix will surrive the shitty treatmemt better than one with some unneded peaks.. so we suethe better spealre to judge to make theese balnced mix and the shitty headphones benefit form that..


you cant mix fr a shitty headphone.. beaciase..for which headphone you shall mix than? to have a mix that works on all types of shitty headphones and speakers it hast to be just the wright mix.. in ideal mixed on ideal speakers in an room with ideal acoustics
Thanks but I think you've taken me the wrong way. I understand the principles of mixing and, as you said, make the best mix possible and it will transfer to lesser quality audio output devices. Essentially, if it sounds good on flat response speakers, it will sound good on anything else.
But my query was not about mixing. I wanted to know about what "consumer headphones" do to the sound. And if there's any way of testing it.

ollyb303
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by ollyb303 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:58 am

3phase wrote:just make a good mix and dont care about "consumer headphones" they are just like studio headhones just a bit more shitty..

a wel balanced mix will surrive the shitty treatmemt better than one with some unneded peaks.. so we suethe better spealre to judge to make theese balnced mix and the shitty headphones benefit form that..


you cant mix fr a shitty headphone.. beaciase..for which headphone you shall mix than? to have a mix that works on all types of shitty headphones and speakers it hast to be just the wright mix.. in ideal mixed on ideal speakers in an room with ideal acoustics
Did you type this with your feet???
.:O:B:1:.
ob1techno.com

Mister36
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by Mister36 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:12 am

ollyb303 wrote:
3phase wrote:just make a good mix and dont care about "consumer headphones" they are just like studio headhones just a bit more shitty..

a wel balanced mix will surrive the shitty treatmemt better than one with some unneded peaks.. so we suethe better spealre to judge to make theese balnced mix and the shitty headphones benefit form that..


you cant mix fr a shitty headphone.. beaciase..for which headphone you shall mix than? to have a mix that works on all types of shitty headphones and speakers it hast to be just the wright mix.. in ideal mixed on ideal speakers in an room with ideal acoustics
Did you type this with your feet???
I did wonder something similar actually. Though I was just glad he (I'm just assuming he's a he) didn't twist the thread into an Ableton-bashing session for himself. :P

fx23
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by fx23 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:39 am

there are tools to analasyse and reverse apply fft, but they need ro know exact frequencies response,
wich is totally random on cheap hearphones, usually not provided by the manufacturer for your specific cans,
and that will vary from another pair of same exact model. Plus i doubt you will have enough fundz to get the hardware
mics to allow the ideal flat enough rec, as mics have also their own freq responsee. so no there is no way.

better manually check what they do, by comparing with a trusted source.Mostly they will kill all low end infra bass
and color or fake boost/lack in the bass, have harsh his and unprecise mids.

Moody
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by Moody » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:03 am

Most would say mixing in headphones is not so good of an idea.
Ableton’s engineers are hard
at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.

Mister36
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by Mister36 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:13 pm

fx23 wrote:there are tools to analasyse and reverse apply fft, but they need ro know exact frequencies response,
wich is totally random on cheap hearphones, usually not provided by the manufacturer for your specific cans,
and that will vary from another pair of same exact model. Plus i doubt you will have enough fundz to get the hardware
mics to allow the ideal flat enough rec, as mics have also their own freq responsee. so no there is no way.

better manually check what they do, by comparing with a trusted source.Mostly they will kill all low end infra bass
and color or fake boost/lack in the bass, have harsh his and unprecise mids.
Thank you, Mr. 23. I was guessing that it was possible and there wouldn't be a particularly easy way. No plugin to do it then? :P
I joke.

Forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by manually check?

Moody wrote:Most would say mixing in headphones is not so good of an idea.
This is true and I agree. I tend not to at all, just for a different perspective, as an addition. However, mixing is not really what this thread is about.

fx23
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by fx23 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:24 pm

there are vst like TC electronic Assimilator or several high end EQ i don't really remember that have a learn fft,
or you could just use live build in Spectrum to look at the results, but unless using
ultra flat Mic to rec out of the headphones as said, it won't be helpfull, so no VST plugins, will solve your pb :)

by manually i mean you can hear a loop of your stuff in a while where all frequencies are there,
on very good monitors (and room) supposed to be quite flat and not too much affecting content, then toggle to hear in your
headphones and try to observe the changes.
then maybe you can EQ and try to correct a bit the things you spoted. ie if you notice your headphones have
too much His vs trusted monitors, then you EQ and lower his until you find they better match.

3phase
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by 3phase » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:08 am

ollyb303 wrote:
3phase wrote:just make a good mix and dont care about "consumer headphones" they are just like studio headhones just a bit more shitty..

a wel balanced mix will surrive the shitty treatmemt better than one with some unneded peaks.. so we suethe better spealre to judge to make theese balnced mix and the shitty headphones benefit form that..


you cant mix fr a shitty headphone.. beaciase..for which headphone you shall mix than? to have a mix that works on all types of shitty headphones and speakers it hast to be just the wright mix.. in ideal mixed on ideal speakers in an room with ideal acoustics
Did you type this with your feet???

no ..just in lightspeed because i cant spare more than one second for stupid ableton "producer" questions
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Mister36
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by Mister36 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:16 am

This wasn't a stupid Ableton "producer" question. I'm sorry you thought it was. But as your answer was pretty much pointless as to what I was asking, maybe you shouldn't have even wasted that one second.

3phase
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Re: The Consumer Headphones Effect...

Post by 3phase » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:04 am

Of course, consumer headphones and studio/monitoring headphones are very different beasts made for very different purposes, but is there any way of finding out what specifically makes my consumer headphones sound "better"? What are they doing to my frequency response curve?!?!? :P

thats no stupid question?

are you sure?

i actually think its one of the most stupid that came along here ever..and thats quite something..
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

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