Limiter- Is it a Loudness maximizer? and a few other randoms

[andyb19844]

Limiter- I know people use it to cut off anything above 0DB. But if you going above 0db in the first place arent you doin something wrong? ( clipping )??
Ive have noticed in cheaper programs like Grageband that it made my DJ set or production sound louder, or have read that it makes it Radio Ready ,as they say. Or would I be better off just ordering a nice Plugin like Ozone/Izotope Loudness maximiser/

Also when adding New Live Packs from the ableton site how do I go into the Ableton Menu and basically refresh it without having to re-add all the live packs? I just want to add one new one

SAMPLES- got any good websites for loop packs. Im gonna start building a data base for this,but prolly wont use to much as I dont feel original using any thing longer then a one shot or single drum sound.So I might just run some RCA from my TV to my sound card .Maybe old movies in such, thanks

[Abterra]

Limiter- I know people use it to cut off anything above 0DB. But if you going above 0db in the first place arent you doin something wrong? ( clipping )??
Ive have noticed in cheaper programs like Grageband that it made my DJ set or production sound louder, or have read that it makes it Radio Ready ,as they say. Or would I be better off just ordering a nice Plugin like Ozone/Izotope Loudness maximiser/

A limiter doesn't "cut off" anything going above unity gain (0db) it prevents your music from clipping, huge difference. A limiter is basically a really strong compressor, with inf. ratio. It will make quieter sources louder in volume when you pull the threshold down, and it takes the loudest sources and prevents them from clipping. I apply a limiter on acoustic guitars, vocals, and other things when I'm recording just to prevent clipping. When you have the threshold too low, however, you get a pretty nasty sound, a lot of pumping. I apply it also after I bounce my mix. i.e., when I have a song completed in Ableton, I bounce the stereo song, bring it in another program like Waveburner, (any DAW will do) and apply a limiter to the entire song. you will be surprised at how much volume you can get out of your music, assuming your know a little about mixing, and headroom.

A loudness maximizer is a little different in that It is an algorythm designed to maximize the loudness, I think that they can sound really artificial and I think they add a lot of unwanted artifacts to the sound. I prefer using a limiter, like the PSP audio Xenon, that shit is on point. It sounds a more natural as well.

I have used Ozone, it's a great piece of software. but...If you are not mastering your songs, it is kind of pointless to use. to *finalize* my songs, I apply a limiter and a linear phase EQ (a transparent equalizer, doesnt add any coloration to your sound) and thats about it. The limiter boosts the mix in volume, the Linear phase EQ is the EQ, both don't effect my mix.

Tyler

[Abterra]

and p.s. "radio ready" is another term for being squashed out of oblivion, most likely the least interesting piece of music you can hear.

[Khazul]

I have used Ozone, it's a great piece of software.

I think its great bit of software for sticking some generic spit and polish over your mix exports when you dont have a clue what you are doing but just want it to fit in and make your soundcloud/mypsace or whatever upload sound ok next to other similar uploads.

Personally I think its limiter sux however - actually there are a few bit of it that suk, but as an all in one, its definately one of the best, if not the best/safest starting point(s). Their blurb is actually quite good and informative - ironically to the point of helping you get past needing something like ozone eventually

Once you get to the point of knowing what you want out of a mastering chain and how to get it - then there are far better individual plugins for doing various bits of the job and by then you probably wouldnt touch ozone or any bit of it with a 10ft pole.

[andyb19844]

and p.s. "radio ready" is another term for being squashed out of oblivion, most likely the least interesting piece of music you can hear.

^ good point. I know ive seen the you tube about loudness wars and how the industry has changed

[andyb19844]

Limiter- I know people use it to cut off anything above 0DB. But if you going above 0db in the first place arent you doin something wrong? ( clipping )??
Ive have noticed in cheaper programs like Grageband that it made my DJ set or production sound louder, or have read that it makes it Radio Ready ,as they say. Or would I be better off just ordering a nice Plugin like Ozone/Izotope Loudness maximiser/

A limiter doesn't "cut off" anything going above unity gain (0db) it prevents your music from clipping, huge difference. A limiter is basically a really strong compressor, with inf. ratio. It will make quieter sources louder in volume when you pull the threshold down, and it takes the loudest sources and prevents them from clipping. I apply a limiter on acoustic guitars, vocals, and other things when I'm recording just to prevent clipping. When you have the threshold too low, however, you get a pretty nasty sound, a lot of pumping. I apply it also after I bounce my mix. i.e., when I have a song completed in Ableton, I bounce the stereo song, bring it in another program like Waveburner, (any DAW will do) and apply a limiter to the entire song. you will be surprised at how much volume you can get out of your music, assuming your know a little about mixing, and headroom.

A loudness maximizer is a little different in that It is an algorythm designed to maximize the loudness, I think that they can sound really artificial and I think they add a lot of unwanted artifacts to the sound. I prefer using a limiter, like the PSP audio Xenon, that shit is on point. It sounds a more natural as well.

I have used Ozone, it's a great piece of software. but...If you are not mastering your songs, it is kind of pointless to use. to *finalize* my songs, I apply a limiter and a linear phase EQ (a transparent equalizer, doesnt add any coloration to your sound) and thats about it. The limiter boosts the mix in volume, the Linear phase EQ is the EQ, both don't effect my mix.

Tyler

your right it prevents anything from going above 0db.IM a little slow. So question.Im making techno/House. Do a little subtractive with EQ8.maybe a compressor/effect on random channels ,then I throw a limiter on the master and maybe a mastering rack. I cant really notice a huge difference when i turn on/off the limiter. So your saying if I turn down the threshold it will raise the volume of the whole mix or just the softer parts of the mix?Your right Ive had that pumping effect before with compressors. I dont like that

[stonee]

before you go to limit to maximize your track, it should be fairly even to prevent that pumping sound.

[Abterra]

Limiter- I know people use it to cut off anything above 0DB. But if you going above 0db in the first place arent you doin something wrong? ( clipping )??
Ive have noticed in cheaper programs like Grageband that it made my DJ set or production sound louder, or have read that it makes it Radio Ready ,as they say. Or would I be better off just ordering a nice Plugin like Ozone/Izotope Loudness maximiser/

A limiter doesn't "cut off" anything going above unity gain (0db) it prevents your music from clipping, huge difference. A limiter is basically a really strong compressor, with inf. ratio. It will make quieter sources louder in volume when you pull the threshold down, and it takes the loudest sources and prevents them from clipping. I apply a limiter on acoustic guitars, vocals, and other things when I'm recording just to prevent clipping. When you have the threshold too low, however, you get a pretty nasty sound, a lot of pumping. I apply it also after I bounce my mix. i.e., when I have a song completed in Ableton, I bounce the stereo song, bring it in another program like Waveburner, (any DAW will do) and apply a limiter to the entire song. you will be surprised at how much volume you can get out of your music, assuming your know a little about mixing, and headroom.

A loudness maximizer is a little different in that It is an algorythm designed to maximize the loudness, I think that they can sound really artificial and I think they add a lot of unwanted artifacts to the sound. I prefer using a limiter, like the PSP audio Xenon, that shit is on point. It sounds a more natural as well.

I have used Ozone, it's a great piece of software. but...If you are not mastering your songs, it is kind of pointless to use. to *finalize* my songs, I apply a limiter and a linear phase EQ (a transparent equalizer, doesnt add any coloration to your sound) and thats about it. The limiter boosts the mix in volume, the Linear phase EQ is the EQ, both don't effect my mix.

Tyler

your right it prevents anything from going above 0db.IM a little slow. So question.Im making techno/House. Do a little subtractive with EQ8.maybe a compressor/effect on random channels ,then I throw a limiter on the master and maybe a mastering rack. I cant really notice a huge difference when i turn on/off the limiter. So your saying if I turn down the threshold it will raise the volume of the whole mix or just the softer parts of the mix?Your right Ive had that pumping effect before with compressors. I dont like that

you got the basic idea. Turning down the threshold will raise the softer parts of the mix, as well as trying to push down the louder parts of the mix (kicks, hard transient attacks.) You have to find a happy medium. I believe you are squashing it too much, applying a mastering rack and a limiter together, most of the mastering racks have a macro for limit gain, which means it has a limiter in the rack already. I would bounce the mix before bringing it through any other limiting stages. Pumping is due to a short release time. the compressor/limiter attacks the transient at the desired speed (coup. milliseconds) and, with a shorter release time, the compressor/limiter lets go and the volume goes back up. if you want to try and reduce pumping try these things.

1) Bring an element of your mix down. Try lowering your kick/ whatever down a couple dbs.
2) Experiment with the attack and release times on the compressor/limiter
3) Don't bring the threshold down too much. you want it so the gain reduction meter is just hitting the tops of the music, not the whole thing. if your GR meter is always on, you are limiting too much. (at least at that stage of limiting.)

Tyler

[Abterra]

and just one more side note that might help. Compressors/limiters are effected more by lower frequencies than higher frequencies. what does this mean? If the limiter is hitting your music too hard, try cutting out some of the lows. I mean sub lows, the lows you feel, rather than hear. What I do for this is to take some of the elements of your mix and filtering out the 20-60/80 hz range. you will be surprised how much sonic space is eaten up because of that. Once again, find the happy medium where your mix doesn't lose too much ass.

Peace,
Tyler

[Abterra]

I have used Ozone, it's a great piece of software.

I think its great bit of software for sticking some generic spit and polish over your mix exports when you dont have a clue what you are doing but just want it to fit in and make your soundcloud/mypsace or whatever upload sound ok next to other similar uploads.

Personally I think its limiter sux however - actually there are a few bit of it that suk, but as an all in one, its definately one of the best, if not the best/safest starting point(s). Their blurb is actually quite good and informative - ironically to the point of helping you get past needing something like ozone eventually

Once you get to the point of knowing what you want out of a mastering chain and how to get it - then there are far better individual plugins for doing various bits of the job and by then you probably wouldnt touch ozone or any bit of it with a 10ft pole.

exactly. I used it because I thought that it would be the "magic" to finish my mix. So wrong, man. I'm not a mastering engineer, so using ozone is like killing a rabbit with a nuke. The key with these things is to get a really great sounding mix, then just bring it up in volume. (hence the limiter) When you have too many options, like ozone has, you have the tendency to mess with shit and eventually, corrupt your mix.

[andyb19844]

Abterra thanks man . You answered a question about the mastering racks ive been curious about. So mastering racks have Limiters in them. Yep ive been squishing them too much . Also here is a great video i watched that im gonna keep in mind when limiting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL3OTVeyIsw

Also how come when i hit the " quote" button and go to reply the ableton scroll bar gets all crazy and wont let me see what im typin . It keeps goin up.Has anybody else had this happen too or am i just missing something stupid.

[Spectrumdisco]

Just use it as a last resort safety net after you think you have the levels. I would not use it as the tool to bring my levels down.

[beats me]

There's only one surefire way of knowing your mix is done to today's professional standards, when the waveform window is a solid black rectangle.

[Abterra]

There's only one surefire way of knowing your mix is done to today's professional standards, when the waveform window is a solid black rectangle.

lol yeah musical sausage...

[3phase]

A limiter doesn't "cut off" anything going above unity gain (0db) it prevents your music from clipping, huge difference. A limiter is basically a really strong compressor, with inf. ratio. r

while this is theoretical true you have to keep in mind that we are in the ableton domain here and theire limiter is causing clippings aslong you have set its ceiling to 0 db..

you have to reduce this setting, and actually you should avoid the whole plug becuae it dont sounds especially good.
When you can afford an external one like izotope you are much better of and have limiting and maximizing options.