Guitar Swell in Live

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
fcarroll
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Guitar Swell in Live

Post by fcarroll » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:12 pm

Hi Guys,

I don't have an expression pedal or volume pedal for my guitar but in the case of Live looping does anyone know a way I could automate a volume increase a Live clip while recording, can't get the head around it, thanks.

Frankie
iMac, MacBook Pro, Ableton Live 8 Suite,Ableton PUSH Komplete 8, Logic Studio,Launchpad x 2, iPad (Lemur), M-Audio Keystudio, Akai MPD18, ...

Tone Deft
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:19 pm

or work on your guitar technique. volume knobs are usually placed so that your pinky can wrap around it so you can play and control the volume at the same time.

in Live could you use arrange view to lay down volume automation while recording into Looper? I'd have to try it.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

kanuck
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by kanuck » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:34 pm

i'm trying to emulate volume swells as well... theoretically the mixer slider or a utility volume knob should work.. yet to put it to practice.

Pasha
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by Pasha » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:03 pm

I have done a lot of experiments. Live rocks for swells.
I can create incredible lush pads.
Give me some more time (offfice now) and I'll post some example patch or How To over the weekend
Live 8 is needed...

- Best
- Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
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Pasha
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by Pasha » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:05 pm

Tone Deft wrote:or work on your guitar technique. volume knobs are usually placed so that your pinky can wrap around it so you can play and control the volume at the same time.

in Live could you use arrange view to lay down volume automation while recording into Looper? I'd have to try it.
You can do more TD! Real Time Lush pads...
I'll post examples soon.

- Best
- Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Tone Deft
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:57 pm

Pasha wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:or work on your guitar technique. volume knobs are usually placed so that your pinky can wrap around it so you can play and control the volume at the same time.

in Live could you use arrange view to lay down volume automation while recording into Looper? I'd have to try it.
You can do more TD! Real Time Lush pads...
I'll post examples soon.

- Best
- Pasha
cool. I was just browsing the forum over my morning coffee, there's gotta be a way to make a rack for this. I've made an LFO m4L device but that's not the best answer. if you know m4L this isn't an issue.

I'd start with a device that has an LFO, like autopan. then work that against an inverted utility to duck the signal. or maybe sidechain the guitar against a falling and rising tone.

hmmm...

still, it's always good to work on instrument chops. people have been doing swells by hand for decades.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

Pasha
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by Pasha » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:58 am

Here we are:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/t3jxfo

I have attached the Rack I made and two audio examples.
The trick here is to use the Vocoder FX as a Pedal for swells
to iron out the harsh attack of every guitar. (No side chain used)
By adding Chorus/Flanger to the signal and Reverb to the end
the impression of a Pad is given. Optionally you can add a compressor
before the rack to make sustain even longer and a limiter after the reverb
to avoid volume jumps. I have tried also with MultiComp. Results are varied
but adjust to taste!

Another thing I use which implies Hardware is to drive my Zoom 9030 (20 years old
FX) with dummy clips while I record another clip. The good news here is that
it responds to CC7 so if you send CC7 from a dummy clip (I have made CC7 swells by
1/4 note, 1/2 note, 1/8 note) you can drive your volume swells in real time.
However this technique requires playing precision to avoid being caught playing a chord
at the wrong time. Of course TD is right about using a Volume Pedal, it gives more control
and your guitar volume could be used as well (expect mine... too old needs to be replaced...)!
As LFO I use Auto Filter or Zebrify (my secret weapon).
This is only an example experiment!.

Guitars can be turned into pads even more interesting than this.
If you search your library you'll find that after AMP addition a preset named
Guitar-Guitar Pad is there (I'm on L8 suite but I guess is there for L8
users as well). That was my inspiring tool. You can find a series of gate effects to wipe out
attack followed by a grain delay at the end.
I have experimented a lot and plan to make racks out of it to put together
a Live Pack but still work in progress. However you can have a sneak peek:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/xpwrm3

The trick is the gate effect (150ms each makes a lot of time when in series) plus the Grain Delay.
In the middle sits an Auto Filter that can be side-chained to taste to open the envelope and swell
frequency in real time. The distortion FX feeds the filter with constant volume and the compressor
pushes low notes up. I took this chain form GR300 internals. Adding Zebrify as VCF/LFO to the game
spices things more. Of course M4L could even do more.... but I do not own it.

Any comment is appreciated!

- Hope you'll enjoy it!
- Best
- Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

UKRuss
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by UKRuss » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:20 am

Excellent, except I can't find Guitar Pad as a preset....There are many but not that one.

Simbosan
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by Simbosan » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:01 am

Seriously, get a volume pedal. No amount of automation will ever quite satisfy as it forces your playing into a fixed rythmn. A pedal will set you free to be so much more expressive.

If you can get a midi pedal to control the automation so much the better as it would keep the raw guitar unaffected in case you wanted to change later.

S
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Pasha
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by Pasha » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:50 pm

UKRuss wrote:Excellent, except I can't find Guitar Pad as a preset....There are many but not that one.
Hi UKRuss,

You mean the Amp Preset?
It's under Audio Effects Rack/Guitar Amp/Guitar-Guitar Pad
It's part of the AMP Live Pack.
I remember that 8.2.1 brought changes to the AMP Library.
I'm still on 8.2.0 if you can't find it I'll post it.

How do you rate the example presets?
I'm on the right path?

- Best
- Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Pasha
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by Pasha » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:51 pm

Simbosan wrote:Seriously, get a volume pedal. No amount of automation will ever quite satisfy as it forces your playing into a fixed rythmn. A pedal will set you free to be so much more expressive.

If you can get a midi pedal to control the automation so much the better as it would keep the raw guitar unaffected in case you wanted to change later.

S
You're right. That's why I'm after real time (no tied to rhythm) pad like.
I think I was able to do something in that direction. What do you think?

- Best
- Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

UKRuss
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by UKRuss » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:02 pm

Pasha wrote:
UKRuss wrote:Excellent, except I can't find Guitar Pad as a preset....There are many but not that one.
Hi UKRuss,

You mean the Amp Preset?
It's under Audio Effects Rack/Guitar Amp/Guitar-Guitar Pad
It's part of the AMP Live Pack.
I remember that 8.2.1 brought changes to the AMP Library.
I'm still on 8.2.0 if you can't find it I'll post it.

How do you rate the example presets?
I'm on the right path?

- Best
- Pasha
Strange, I have Audio Effects Rack>Guitar Amp Clean or Guitar Amp Distortion or Guitar Processing and it isn't under any of those.

I'll give yours a go later though let you know how they work out.

UKRuss
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by UKRuss » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:07 pm

I don't think it's a question of technique anymore, those kind of manual volume swells aren't really difficult to do if thats what you're after.

It is now a question of interest in building an Ableton rack for the fun of seeing what can be done.

UKRuss
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by UKRuss » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:32 pm

well...not sure. I suppose he does ask for an ableton solution to creating a volume swell but that doesn't rule out workrounds I guess.

I just meant that perhaps we're evolving the thread into a cool area, will be interesting to see what the racks can do. :D

UKRuss
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Re: Guitar Swell in Live

Post by UKRuss » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:06 pm

Pash, audio examples sound lush man, nice. Have saved your racks and will give them a go right now! :D

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