operator arrives

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:45 am

You know, no offense to any of the decent people on this forum but all this pissing and moaning about operator I think is a more than a little lame. It reminds me of the announcement of reason three.

Even so, people who were let down at reason 3 had a little more justification in my mind as it had been quite some time since any word from the propellerheads and reason three is an upgrade to the current software, not a new product.

Operator is a new product from ableton and a new product is precisely what ableton said it would be announcing. I don't see what the problem is. I wasn't expecting mp3 support or altivec or better sample editing or any other upgrades/improvements to the current version of live, I was expecting a new product.

Man, we just got a major upgrade to the current system a few months ago and there was another upgrade a year before that. I bought live 1 in March of 2003 from the apple store and in January of 2005 I am using live 4. I think Ableton has more than delivered on this product. I am also confindent they will continue to deliver.

Although live was limited to samples just 1 version ago I don't remember it ever being marketed as a sampler, it is a live sequencing instrument. Dj's can do amazing things with ableton but it is not a djing tool. It is a live squencing instrument and I think operator is a wonderful addition to live as well as a perfect compliment to simpler and impulse.

I think it sounds pretty good, it is a bit pricey and heavier on the cpu then I would like but I'll be buying it as soon as I have the extra dough. Even sooner if I decide to sell reason.

It's natural to expect something and feel let down when things don't turn out the way you expect, and it's ok to express opinions, but ranting about it or posting threads like "the big let down" is just selfish, childish nonsense imho.

My .2

no_barcode · Post by **no_barcode** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:58 am

sweetjesus wrote:are you using 14 bit controllers?

When in live with my BCR2000 I can set anything up to recieve 14 bit values and that makes everything smooth like cream

No... do you know of any MIDI keyboard controllers that send 14-bit controller messages, off hand? I'd like to look into that a bit more.

I have an M-Audio Radium 49. It gets nervous when I talk about 14-bits.

conny · Post by **conny** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:01 am

I tend to agree with the latest [Edit: became 2nd last speaker] speaker and so on and now I have to do that again, even if I have been part of the howling crowd tonight.

You are pointing to some perspective here that are utterly true. About six month ago I found a Live review in my first copy of Computer Magazine, with the Live 4 demo. That's the start. Some months later I had converted all 101 disks of W30 samples into folders I could use in Live and I stepped over to be a registered user. Live, and Live only, was the reason to engage in sound making after 10 years of archived silence. And here I am, moaning about freebees that are as good as Operator.

Sometimes you only need someone to turn you around and show you the way you have arrived, and then you might find out where you were going.

Good forum, good night, sound dreams to you all, abe's included.

// C

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:02 am

smutek wrote:It's natural to expect something and feel let down when things don't turn out the way you expect, and it's ok to express opinions, but ranting about it or posting threads like "the big let down" is just selfish, childish nonsense imho.

Live is the kind of app that people really live in and care about. It's not surprising at all to me that people have such strong reactions. It certainly isn't "childish" to be disappointed. It also isn't "childish" to wish that Ableton would focus development resources on some of the more pressing needs in the core application instead of building expensive and undistinctive add-ons.

I can buy a lot of other, more interesting synths for $150 if I think that's holding my music back. Only Ableton can improve Live itself.

no_barcode · Post by **no_barcode** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:07 am

Setlle down smutek, I like it!

My guess is that with Ableton Live, 50% or more of their userbase is not even interested in VSTi's or any built-in instruments that can be played via MIDI. They bought it for its ground-breaking audio engine - they want things that allow them to do cool shit with loops. When they don't get what they want, and us MIDI guys get something instead, they get mad - and visa versa, I'm sure. We're like siblings ... We both want all the attention, all the time.

Bearing that in mind, and the fact that, even some of the MIDI guys aren't going to like Operator - you'll probably end up with about 50% of your users actually being happy with something like this. The rest will complain a little.

I for one welcome our new Operator Overlords.

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:08 am

kuniklo wrote: Live is the kind of app that people really live in and care about. It's not surprising at all to me that people have such strong reactions. It certainly isn't "childish" to be disappointed. It also isn't "childish" to wish that Ableton would focus development resources on some of the more pressing needs in the core application instead of building expensive and undistinctive add-ons.

I can buy a lot of other, more interesting synths for $150 if I think that's holding my music back. Only Ableton can improve Live itself.

Good and valid points. I live in and care about this app myself.

My point is operator is a new product, is not a mandatory purchase, is not an upgrade, and does nothing to prohibit Ableton from improving live.

Disapointment is not childish, negativity and/or hostility as a result are.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:09 am

with all due respect, what is operator providing that one cannot achieve in some other shape or form

conny · Post by **conny** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:12 am

NAMM comes when it comes, right? So they wanted something for the show. That turned out to be what some of us were not the most eager to have. I guess to some extend this is a timing issue; in a couple of month this discussion may have turned the other way around, when they have attended to the questions and wishes raised in the forums.
Lesson learned: Hype is always connected with a warning sign, visible when you have passed the hyped event.
// C

conny · Post by **conny** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:30 am

sweetjee: Maybe not that much as to spend the 149$, asides from the smooth integration in our beloved host. (Though, it did provide a deep stir in the threads, alas!)

We tend to think that we are loyal and expecting gifts, right? We are giving advice and hinting in all directions with midi and dj arms like christmas thees and whats left on the floor... is... an FM... synth?

Childish - well, yes. And that's one thing thats keeps me here - and makes me regret some posts, also.

// C

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:35 am

Yeah but you know..... a year ago we didn't even have midi or vsti support.

conny · Post by **conny** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:46 am

I wasn't here then. And that's like saying I was born now, in this century, when someone reminds you about times when there was no central heating or electricity. So, right again, perspective is a good thing.

And so is sleep.
Take care.
(That hammer and "speaking metaphorical" that was posted I want to blow up as a poster and keep in my room at work, by the way... - Art to my taste, really.)

// C

Former Pharaoh · Post by **Former Pharaoh** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:09 am

God Dammit!!!! I was afraid Operator would be a F-n hog!!!!! Looks like Reason 3.0 for me.
I'll still use Live for audio though

Winterpark · Post by **Winterpark** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:25 am

a prediction for the future....

...give it a couple of months....

...when the user library is up and running...

... me thinks the Operator will been seen in a more positive light.

steve-o · Post by **steve-o** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:54 am

::mic-minimal:: wrote:.... this one hurt. Ableton you know we love you but this synth would
have been more welcomed if we already had other things that we need, not to mention other things that are more in vein with the reason we all got into ableton live in the first place, which was absolutely not for your 'synth prowess'
it was for your sampler prowess.

we need special ableton beat slicing
rexfile compatibility
individual slice parameters
dual screen capability for session and arrangement view
sample modulating features, not regular ones but... you know (ableton style)
we need the access to i/o in the arrangement view
we need strange and wonderful effects
we mp3 access........yesss, even though it's an inferior audio spec.

if you make Live the sampler that it's meant to be or at least that we thought it was meant to be, it'll be better, rival, and kick the ass of any synth.
please know that we look to you for new ways to interface with music and artisticly Ableton style sampling and sequencing features before other types of things. The one thing every serious Live 4 user wants is to not leave the Live 4 environment for sampling features.

in closing I'd like to thank you for the synth, i'm sure i'll get some good use out of it in the future.

regards
-mic

my sentiments exactly, with the addition of simpler timestretching samples.

McM · Post by **McM** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:12 am

i have to agree: Operator is a very nice synth. no doubt! definetly much better than most of the fm stuff out there

but,
it is too expensive (imo 70-80 bucks would be ok)
it uses too much cpu

..., well i will render the demo sounds...