Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
cacti
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Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by cacti » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:39 am

??

anyone know how? thanks.

S4racen
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by S4racen » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:01 am

Many ways, what are you specifically trying to do??

You could use dummy clips, set to the quantisation you want to launch, with an envelope drawn the length of the quantisation level then returning to zero, set launch mode to repeat and as long as you keep your button pressed it'll keep relaunching and turning the effect on. When you let go the rest of the clip will play turning off the effect. This could be a dummy track you're routing audio to or a midi clip whereby your using midi yoke or an iac driver to take the midi from the clip out of ableton and return it to it as if you had an actual midi controller attached sending the message....

Cheers
D

#1thelark
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by #1thelark » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:11 am

Here are two possible solutions:
search for clyphx in the forum
or try this:
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151571

exaltron
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by exaltron » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:17 pm

I just posted another solution to this in video tutorial format in this thread. Hope this will help and/or amuse you..
Image

fx23
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by fx23 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:33 pm

another is just setting your midi controler as momentary, most can today. they usually provide a buildin or software editor where you can choose mesage type and togg/momentary for each buttons/pads. what is your controller?

Mister36
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by Mister36 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:43 pm

fx23 wrote:another is just setting your midi controler as momentary, most can today. they usually provide a buildin or software editor where you can choose mesage type and togg/momentary for each buttons/pads. what is your controller?
I appreciate that some controllers can but I, for one, would like to be able to do this with the Launchpad without using Automap. Unfortuntely, ClyphX cannot work to this at the current time, otherwise I'd be away.

I think software (not just Live, but especially so so I can benefit) should compensate for this. Though I also realise that a lot of people thing software (Live in particular on here for obvious reasons) should do certain things. Doesn't mean they really should, just that that person thinks they should.
Anyway, I've rambled.

Choice for momentary control in Live = +1

exaltron
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by exaltron » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:13 pm

fx23 wrote:another is just setting your midi controler as momentary, most can today. they usually provide a buildin or software editor where you can choose mesage type and togg/momentary for each buttons/pads. what is your controller?
Mine is 10 years old so I'm pretty sure it doesn't, I think this is something that has come about in the last few years. Besides I personally find that working out problems with obscure applications featuring exasperating text-only interfaces builds character.
Image

fx23
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by fx23 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:22 pm

@Mr36 mmmm, i don't know i tottally respect but i would better fix the pb at the source, here the midi controller.
if the ctrl doesn't send a momentary message, then that mean it's in toggle, 127 when you press, 0 the second time, or that it just send same mess each press, it doesn't send the right info on release. in booth cases workarounds are tricky for x controls, boring,not efficient, related on time info, cpu not free. even if they implemented natively that would be not very efficient due to the lack of correct info and various possible scenarios on type of in/out conversions.
i pers think midi converter tools like bomes, max, pd or usine in my case can then do better, cleaner, more modular and adapted to each user needz jobz for filting/converting midi before sending as a standart control for live, feel there are too much possible scenarios for them to implement in a clean and simple way to do that, or it's to be called MFL.
it seem awesome to me apc or lauchpad user seem to mean you can't do that natively. (mind ya i tried a nocturn recently
and what blazed of automap, im more in good old shool midi i didn't understood lol), but i can't imagine a second lauchpad can't be customized to work as momentary?, i have no clue about launchpad but you mean it's either in session mode or custom midi?

@exaltron yes maybe not, but who knows, what model is it?

Mister36
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by Mister36 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:54 pm

fx23 wrote:@Mr36 mmmm, i don't know i tottally respect but i would better fix the pb at the source, here the midi controller.
if the ctrl doesn't send a momentary message, then that mean it's in toggle, 127 when you press, 0 the second time, or that it just send same mess each press, it doesn't send the right info on release. in booth cases workarounds are tricky for x controls, boring,not efficient, related on time info, cpu not free. even if they implemented natively that would be not very efficient due to the lack of correct info and various possible scenarios on type of in/out conversions.
i pers think midi converter tools like bomes, max, pd or usine in my case can then do better, cleaner, more modular and adapted to each user needz jobz for filting/converting midi before sending as a standart control for live, feel there are too much possible scenarios for them to implement in a clean and simple way to do that, or it's to be called MFL.
I realise it can be worked around and it is more of a hardware issue and hardware manufacturers should also make their products be able to send both kinds of messages. In my experience, it's not that common for MIDI controllers to have the choice. But of course, I haven't used every controller available.

fx23 wrote:it seem awesome to me apc or lauchpad user seem to mean you can't do that natively
Well, the APC doesn't even have an editor software and so its controls are all hardwired, which is a bit of an issue for people in itself. The Launchpad cannot do it in the native Live mode either. It needs Automap...

fx23 wrote:but i can't imagine a second lauchpad can't be customized to work as momentary?
A second Launchpad could be used in Automap mode and therefore customized this way. But that would require a second Launchpad...

fx23 wrote:i have no clue about launchpad but you mean it's either in session mode or custom midi?
Well, there is a way to switch between the native Live mode and Automap mode but ideally the User modes in the native Live mode would be configurable to work as momentary buttons and as the programming the Launchpad uses to do its controlling is inside Live, this would have to be an addition to Live.

fx23
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by fx23 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:30 am

oh i understand more now why there is so much called 'hacks' for those devices lol
funny i had a completely different experience, absolutely all the midi ctrl i sussesively used had this option.
(old uc16cx, kontrol49, bcf2k, zero8, nanopads). i though it was on every push types devices.
ok so there is the 'native mode' but inside this mode you can't customize...
yeah not cool it seems.

Mister36
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by Mister36 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:39 am

fx23 wrote:oh i understand more now why there is so much called 'hacks' for those devices lol
funny i had a completely different experience, absolutely all the midi ctrl i sussesively used had this option.
(old uc16cx, kontrol49, bcf2k, zero8, nanopads). i though it was on every push types devices.
ok so there is the 'native mode' but inside this mode you can't customize...
yeah not cool it seems.
Yeah, there are a fair few "hacks" and "workarounds" and even various extra applications for them. It's a shame they need them really. The work Mr. Petrov has done for the APC40 is really how the product should have been in the first place.
And Metastatik/Stray has done similar for the Launchpad as well as the APC.
But not having these basic functions without these add-ons is what annoys people.

But anyway, you may well be right that the majority do have this functionality, just not the majority that I've used. Who knows?

And you can customize all of the buttons on those devices using MIDI Map mode but that's obviously a different kind of customizing. More in-depth customizing is available for the Launchpad through Automap but there's nothing for the APC.

fx23
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by fx23 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:16 am

i understand. yeah Apc seems quite limited, i didn't found it cool while testing, but it's a matter of tastes.
prefered to build my own virtual, so im free to build whatever behaviour i want, mmt/toggle/invered/rec moves/random/save/recall parameters, by waiting RGB cool HW pads or cool tactile feeback experience. i still got real pads and faders on top of that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgf7nXyL ... re=related

S4racen
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by S4racen » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:59 am

Mister36 wrote:
A second Launchpad could be used in Automap mode and therefore customized this way. But that would require a second Launchpad...
You can use my Octop4d device in User 2 mode and create your own mid mapping, i have 8 pages of midi controls selectable using the right hand side round buttons, you need max for live to run it but then that gives you the ability to edit the patch for which i provide full support....

http://vimeo.com/18762683

Things can go pretty deep though, you can have a button that sends a different midi message with each push say +1 to the cc, with another that does the opposite for moving through chain selectors...

Momentray and toggle is a simple task and i've made all the pages simply switchable, but you could have a group of buttons where the press of one turns another off... If you've looked at farmpad for the padkontrol you'll understand how many different options there are, plus you can control the lighting however you want....

Cheers
D

vjfranzk
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by vjfranzk » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:40 pm

momentary would be a good option in Live itself

it's such a drag to program controllers from their built in menus,
which are almost always confusing.
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Mister36
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Re: Is it possible to set effects on/off as momentary not toggle

Post by Mister36 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:53 pm

I don't think buying Max for Live and then paying for an extra device/application is really a fair or particularly viable workaround for functionality that seems to me to be so fundamental.

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