The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
humnumb
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by humnumb » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:52 am

starving student wrote:first off, in your post you told me repeatedly that the way I want to use maschine is not the way it's supposed to be used, in effect that my feature request are not appropriate.
First off, I was referring to how you want Maschine to behave as if was designed to be a full blown audio editor and not what it actually is, and how how you don't want how it actually works for what it's supposed to do to get in the way of that (which you hilariously described as a "work around"). Secondly, if you were making a feature request for Maschine, why are you posting it here? :lol:

It seems more like you just needed to say "I never understood folks wanting to get rid of their mpcs for maschine" and that "the mpc on the other hand is the greatest stand alone instrument of it's kind". That's all you needed to say instead of going on and on. We get your point.
starving student wrote:why do you think you need to view more than one page for sequencing on the mpc, I know you're familiar with simply highlighting the sequence line and scrolling up or down, is that what you are calling a different page.....thats not a fair comparison.
Go back and read what I wrote. I never said anything about that. Look, no matter however you try to spin it, Maschine's workflow is FAR SUPERIOR to MPCs, period. It's just so much faster and there's no annoying things like having to constantly stop the sequencer to make changes.
starving student wrote:I would prefer 99 kits to 8 kits of 128 samples
You can have up to 128 samples per sound/pad in Maschine. Think about that for a second.
starving student wrote:why are you telling me the muting is perfect and I don't need any improvements, as a matter of fact I need to be able to sequence my mutes,
Don't put words in my mouth. :x Who said "muting is perfect"? Or that it doesn't "need any improvements"? I said that it is "Much better than MPCs or APCs for being able to mute/solo by group and by sound instantly (crucial for live performance) from dedicated controls on the hardware." Sequencing mutes is a different matter and you can achieve the same thing if you understand how to work with different patterns and scenes. And of course it would be great if Maschine also got that feature eventually, which is very likely considering how active Maschine's development cycles have been and being mostly based on actual user feedback.
starving student wrote:unless folks like you stop ni from developing it further for god knows what reason.
:roll: What the hell are you talking about?
All you had to say was that you were a MPC fanboy and that it is the greatest thing ever and how you can't understand why anyone would ditch the MPC for Maschine.
starving student wrote:i would rather have maschine freeze samples right in place on the pads they're getting mangled on, just like every daw freezes tracks right in place on the specified track
The way it does freezing makes sense and it works for me. If they make it even better, easier, would I complain? Hell no. Too bad it's not good enough for you.
starving student wrote:and what do you mean you can already use it as an editor, can you layer up a bunch of samples on a single pad and effect that pad and then simply export that pad? if so that's great!
Yup. Like I said, you can layer up to 128 samples per pad.

starving student
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by starving student » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:32 am

you keep saying you can layer up to 128 samples perpad, I'm not talking about how many samples you can layer, I don't think you understand what I'm saying or you would responded in kind, it's not how many layers it's how the layering is done. I don't need 128 layers but I need ni to beef up the sample slots and groups outside of that padmode shit I don't layer samples like a keyboard player (no offense)

your post are full of misinformation why do you keep saying that you have t0 stop the sequencer with the mpc, you had an mp right, seems like you only scratched the surface.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1hJwsEM7Dc

more misinformation that the mpc doesn't have better mutes, it's got track mutes and pad mutes so what are you talkin about? plus they're recordable

look John, stop hating so much, you want me to say I'm an mpc fanboy :D ..........um no.I told you already I didn't give up maschine, I added it to my beatmachine harem, I also own roland samplers as well, don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I'm sure your beats are super crispy and easy to dance to since they prob don't change tempo, it's all good. betcha wouldn't do this with your maschine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9LCrmFGZBc

btw you still haven't told me how you know so much about how maschine was designed to be some restricted rigid way, it's like you've got a hold of the maschine manifest or somethng and are in charge of deviations..... were you like this before they added vst support?

humnumb
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by humnumb » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:33 am

starving student wrote:you keep saying you can layer up to 128 samples perpad, I'm not talking about how many samples you can layer, I don't think you understand what I'm saying or you would responded in kind
No. It's you who's not understanding. You can have 128 samples spread across the keyboard PER PAD or have them all layered on a single note. Get it?
starving student wrote:it's not how many layers it's how the layering is done. I don't need 128 layers but I need ni to beef up the sample slots and groups outside of that padmode shit I don't layer samples like a keyboard player (no offense)
That's why there's Pad Link layering feature. It doesn't get easier than that and it's much quicker and more flexible than MPC's simult pad mode. Have you even used Maschine 1.6?
starving student wrote:your post are full of misinformation why do you keep saying that you have t0 stop the sequencer with the mpc, you had an mp right, seems like you only scratched the surface.
You're the one putting words in my mouth or twisting them to misrepresent what I said. Look, it's just a fact that you have to stop the sequencer on the MPC anytime you want to perform an operation or make some sort of change to sequence parameters. Maschine, on the other hand, was designed to be used without having to stop the sequencer, even for things like doubling pattern length and copying scenes/patterns. For you to even try to question this makes one wonder about your motivation or how much you really know about these machines.
starving student wrote:more misinformation that the mpc doesn't have better mutes, it's got track mutes and pad mutes so what are you talkin about?
Like I said, it's all about the workflow and Maschine has the advantage of having dedicated controls for quickly muting/soloing any group or sound at anytime. You don't have to go to another page before you can do so like with the MPC.
starving student wrote:I'm sure your beats are super crispy and easy to dance to since they prob don't change tempo, it's all good.
Don't worry. I can make songs with tempo changes just fine. Maschine and Logic together got that covered for me.

starving student
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by starving student » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:20 am

You're the one putting words in my mouth or twisting them to misrepresent what I said. Look, it's just a fact that you have to stop the sequencer on the MPC anytime you want to perform an operation or make some sort of change to sequence parameters. Maschine, on the other hand, was designed to be used without having to stop the sequencer, even for things like doubling pattern length and copying scenes/patterns. For you to even try to question this makes one wonder about your motivation or how much you really know about these machines
no now you're rephrasing of course there are some functions maschine can do without stopping the seq that the mpc cannot but I would hope so. i put the clip up there to make clear what I thought you were talking about. but you eluded to my point anyway, if you're using a piece of software you shouldn't need to use the power of maschine and logic to do what an mpc can do by itself.

now there are things an mpc can't come close to maschine on like efx the step sequencer and some other things but stringing together a song that varries in composition is still easier on an mp.

I'm quite proficient in both machines for my needs but I don't use the padmode sample slots feature, since this sounds like your fav feature maybe you can tell me.
can you take the 16 pads of group A, and link them to 16 different sample slots within one pad on group B, and does each of those sample slots on that single pad of group B each carry the 2 fx slots.
then add fx to those slots in group B and then drag a sample sound to a folder containing the layers, and fx?

humnumb
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by humnumb » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:34 am

You can try it yourself. I'm done playing this game with you.

The Carpet Cleaner
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:16 am

humnumb wrote:
T.I.M. wrote:Anyone who tells you that the drum layering in Maschine is as quick and fast as it is on the MPC is lying, period lol.
On the contrary, MPC layering doesn't even allow adjustment of envelopes independently for each individual layer. Maschine's Pad Link layering feature allows this and is way faster to use than MPC's similar Simult Pad mode.
T.I.M. wrote:Maschine has the most limited sampling and sample editing of any software/hardware sampler I have ever used. Everything Maschine can do in this regard can be accomplished by an MPC, MV, or any leading software sampler. Maschine just doesn't have the same editing capabilities.
Wait, are you Jahrome (aka. Askia Shaheed) the notorious MPC fanboy troll on the interwebz? Either that or you just copied and pasted his posts from the NI forums: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... post783304
T.I.M. wrote:Since you never have to stop an MPCs sequencer, you can start recording your kik drums on a track 1..hit a button to go to track 2 to start recording your snares.
WTF? You do have to stop the MPC's sequencer constantly when you're working with it. It's Maschine that you never have to stop the sequencer when you're using it.
T.I.M. wrote:However, Maschine nor any product I have seen can match what an MPC does with Quantize and Swing
Here we go again. You only have to read what Roger Linn, the inventor of MPC, said recently on CDM about how he programmed the swing to know that what you're talking about is nothing but a myth.
T.I.M. wrote:I can't think of one good reason to use Maschine instead of my MPC 5000. The 5K OS 2.0 is light years ahead of Maschine in every way.
Again, this is yet another direct copy/paste of Jahrome's post: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... post784510
T.I.M. wrote:Maschine synth/sound shaping tools are not great. If you look at its Pitch, Filter, and Amp Envelopes as was as its LFOs...it comes no where near an MPC 4000 or 5000...or the MPC 2500/1000 w
ith the JJ OS installed.
What a joke. Maschine is much easier, faster, and more fun to use than a MPC with JJ OS from my experience with both. It's all about the workflow and Maschine does dickslap MPCs in that regard.
T.I.M. wrote:i got a mpc 60 mk1. in 1987, still working strong. bought Machine for 360 euros. will it survive for 23 years? prob not. is it good? - yes it is. selling the mpc? -no sir.
Good for you but plenty have already replaced the MPC with Maschine because it just makes sense. Your MPC60 is only going to become harder to fix/replace as time goes on. Maschine's model makes it much easier to maintain since it utilizes a regular computer with a much more cost effective controller. MPC is just a very limited proprietary computer.
T.I.M. wrote:also the sp1200/mpc60 emulations are not very good imo perhaps someone could post and a/b of sounds cos the shit sounds the same to me.
It's obvious you're just trolling but this has already been done extensively by those who own both in the NI Maschine forum.
T.I.M. wrote:I also like to sequence a voyager, ti2 polar, vst's and a sp1200. So one midi out is not going to that with good timing.
You can definitely sequence any MIDI hardware with Maschine. It recognizes multiple MIDi ports and gives you 16 MIDI channels to work with for that which is plenty. Plugin sequencing is done internally and does not require MIDI ports. None of that has anything to do with "timing".

CAN you please link to the interview with Roger linn where he talks about how he programmed the swing of MPCs ?

Mister36
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by Mister36 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:24 pm

Though I have limited knowledge of the MPC machines, I think it's quite unfair to compare the top-end ones to Maschine. For two reasons. Price. And development time. Maschine is still pretty young. And this is also a factor that should be taken into account when people compare Maschine to Ableton.

Now stop bickering and just use what you want to use and make the music you want to make! :P

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:43 pm

starving student wrote:
You're the one putting words in my mouth or twisting them to misrepresent what I said. Look, it's just a fact that you have to stop the sequencer on the MPC anytime you want to perform an operation or make some sort of change to sequence parameters. Maschine, on the other hand, was designed to be used without having to stop the sequencer, even for things like doubling pattern length and copying scenes/patterns. For you to even try to question this makes one wonder about your motivation or how much you really know about these machines
no now you're rephrasing of course there are some functions maschine can do without stopping the seq that the mpc cannot but I would hope so. i put the clip up there to make clear what I thought you were talking about. but you eluded to my point anyway, if you're using a piece of software you shouldn't need to use the power of maschine and logic to do what an mpc can do by itself.

now there are things an mpc can't come close to maschine on like efx the step sequencer and some other things but stringing together a song that varries in composition is still easier on an mp.

I'm quite proficient in both machines for my needs but I don't use the padmode sample slots feature, since this sounds like your fav feature maybe you can tell me.
can you take the 16 pads of group A, and link them to 16 different sample slots within one pad on group B, and does each of those sample slots on that single pad of group B each carry the 2 fx slots.
then add fx to those slots in group B and then drag a sample sound to a folder containing the layers, and fx?
If you put multiple samples on a single pad, they all have the same settings. Same effects over all of them etc. So you wouldn't want to build a drum kit that way. Not sure why you would want to do that though since there's 8 groups of 16 pads already, for 128 individual channels. Does anyone need 16,384 drum sounds? :wink:
Professional Shark Jumper.

humnumb
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by humnumb » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:03 pm

The Carpet Cleaner wrote:CAN you please link to the interview with Roger linn where he talks about how he programmed the swing of MPCs ?
I already did in the previous page: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 5#p1253265

starving student
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by starving student » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:56 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:
starving student wrote:
You're the one putting words in my mouth or twisting them to misrepresent what I said. Look, it's just a fact that you have to stop the sequencer on the MPC anytime you want to perform an operation or make some sort of change to sequence parameters. Maschine, on the other hand, was designed to be used without having to stop the sequencer, even for things like doubling pattern length and copying scenes/patterns. For you to even try to question this makes one wonder about your motivation or how much you really know about these machines
no now you're rephrasing of course there are some functions maschine can do without stopping the seq that the mpc cannot but I would hope so. i put the clip up there to make clear what I thought you were talking about. but you eluded to my point anyway, if you're using a piece of software you shouldn't need to use the power of maschine and logic to do what an mpc can do by itself.

now there are things an mpc can't come close to maschine on like efx the step sequencer and some other things but stringing together a song that varries in composition is still easier on an mp.

I'm quite proficient in both machines for my needs but I don't use the padmode sample slots feature, since this sounds like your fav feature maybe you can tell me.
can you take the 16 pads of group A, and link them to 16 different sample slots within one pad on group B, and does each of those sample slots on that single pad of group B each carry the 2 fx slots.
then add fx to those slots in group B and then drag a sample sound to a folder containing the layers, and fx?
If you put multiple samples on a single pad, they all have the same settings. Same effects over all of them etc. So you wouldn't want to build a drum kit that way. Not sure why you would want to do that though since there's 8 groups of 16 pads already, for 128 individual channels. Does anyone need 16,384 drum sounds? :wink:
exactly what I was saying but as you can see my exchange didn't get very far?

starving student
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by starving student » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:02 pm

I don't know what it is, most of us are maschine users in this thread but the fact that some of the mpcs simple workflow hasn't crossed over yet ruffles some feathers whenever it's brought up, the mpc had such of an effect on maschines development especially between 1.0 and 1.5 that I don't know why the animosity exist what with the name calling and girating of the hips and all, but I'm sure you remember glitch I might of given you a headache with all my maschine questions but my purpose was never to put maschine down I was lookin for a way in :lol:

humnumb
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by humnumb » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:23 pm

starving student wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
starving student wrote:I don't use the padmode sample slots feature, since this sounds like your fav feature maybe you can tell me.
can you take the 16 pads of group A, and link them to 16 different sample slots within one pad on group B, and does each of those sample slots on that single pad of group B each carry the 2 fx slots.
then add fx to those slots in group B and then drag a sample sound to a folder containing the layers, and fx?
If you put multiple samples on a single pad, they all have the same settings. Same effects over all of them etc. So you wouldn't want to build a drum kit that way. Not sure why you would want to do that though since there's 8 groups of 16 pads already, for 128 individual channels. Does anyone need 16,384 drum sounds? :wink:
exactly what I was saying but as you can see my exchange didn't get very far?
No. You're clearly confused and if you actually use Maschine and have read the manual, you wouldn't be asking all these questions. And your quoted post that glitch was addressing was when you were asking about the Pad Link layering mode (which you incorrectly referred to as "the padmode sample slots feature"). The Link Groups for the Pad Link feature has nothing to do with Maschine's 8 groups A to H. And what glitch is referring to is Maschine's ability to assign 128 samples per sound/pad either by spreading across different midi notes or layering several on the same note. These are completely different things.

As for what you actually seemed to be asking, the Pad Link feature doesn't work across the different 8 groups. Each of the 8 groups has its own 8 Link groups.

starving student
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by starving student » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:43 pm

spreading multiple samples across the keyboard in one slot is what I was talking about, why do you think he answered the question that way, and the padlink question I asked you encompased both the padlink feature and what he was talking about.

thank you for the info. won't be installing 1.6 until this evening

The Carpet Cleaner
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Re: The CEO of AKAI after Maschine 1.6 beta release

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:10 pm

humnumb wrote:
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:CAN you please link to the interview with Roger linn where he talks about how he programmed the swing of MPCs ?
I already did in the previous page: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 5#p1253265
wonderful !
Cheers

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