Should I make my rig analog or digital

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
kanuck
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Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by kanuck » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:41 pm

So I'm a guitar/laptop performer and i have 2 choices to go.

Choice 1:
Guitar
pedalboard
amp modeler (tech 21 liverpool)
ableton

Choice 2:
Guitar
pedalboard
pigtronix keymaster (ableton in the loop)
guitar amp

I've pretty much brought it down to stability vs convenience.

Choice 1 would be a lot simpler and lighter to setup but has the risk of ableton crashing and my gig being screwed.
choice 2 is a lot of work for every gig cause not only do i have to bring my entire guitar rig.. i also have to bring my ableton rig as well but the advantage is if something goes wrong with ableton i can just shut off the loop and can play the rest of the show without any problems.

I'm really having a hard time choosing between the 2 and both rigs have been bouncing in my head. I'd just like third, fourth, etc. opinions on the matter, thanks.

Mister36
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by Mister36 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:48 pm

I think what you need to do, if you haven't already, is do some stability tests with Ableton in Choice 1. Real, gig-esque setting up and playing for as long as a long set is for you. If after a few, you're happy as Larry who still has his no-claims, go for Choice 1. Even if you're not happy, I'd still try to fix whatever the problem is and still go for Choice 1.

The Carpet Cleaner
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:13 am

anatal or digilog

Cezband
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by Cezband » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:52 am

Just a thought, but you could always get something like a Line 6 Pocket Pod (or one of the bigger ones, depending on exactly how mini-portable you want to be), so you can DI into the PA and still get the guitar sound you want without having an amp.
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kanuck
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by kanuck » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:15 am

Cezband wrote:Just a thought, but you could always get something like a Line 6 Pocket Pod (or one of the bigger ones, depending on exactly how mini-portable you want to be), so you can DI into the PA and still get the guitar sound you want without having an amp.
that's exactly what the tech 21 is for. I just prefer that one over the pods. But your method would mean not sending my guitar through ableton....

wait a sec.. you just struck an idea for me. I could split my signal and so if ableton ever went down i could quickly change so i just went directly to the soundboard and can continue on with the show. lol thanks.

Piplodocus
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by Piplodocus » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:32 pm

I think an additional question is are you happy to go digital tonewise (and with any latency that it might add to your guitar)? CAn you deal without a real amp playing on stage with you (especially venues with shitty monitors if you have a live drummer).

One of my friends plays live with a modelling pedal straight into PA. He usually gets the train to gigs. He's quite happy.

I just can't find a tone and attack and the stage ambience/sound that matches a proper valve guitar head behind me. I bought a van. Moving stuff is a pain. No option available makes me happy, but I have to choose the option that gives me a bad back and costs me a lot more! :roll:
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kanuck
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by kanuck » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:16 pm

Piplodocus wrote:I think an additional question is are you happy to go digital tonewise (and with any latency that it might add to your guitar)? CAn you deal without a real amp playing on stage with you (especially venues with shitty monitors if you have a live drummer).

One of my friends plays live with a modelling pedal straight into PA. He usually gets the train to gigs. He's quite happy.

I just can't find a tone and attack and the stage ambience/sound that matches a proper valve guitar head behind me. I bought a van. Moving stuff is a pain. No option available makes me happy, but I have to choose the option that gives me a bad back and costs me a lot more! :roll:
i have no problem with the modeling/digital technology especially the tech 21 character series (it's analog). i think i will miss having a loud tube amp behind me but it's a worthwhile sacrafice. And as long as there is a loud drummer then i will probably still be able to rock out. Thanks for your advice.

icedsushi
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by icedsushi » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:24 pm

kanuck wrote: Choice 1:
Guitar
pedalboard
amp modeler (tech 21 liverpool)
ableton

Choice 2:
Guitar
pedalboard
pigtronix keymaster (ableton in the loop)
guitar amp
My personal preference, the 2 choices don't seem different enough to me. They're both somewhat hybrid & neither is completely analog or digital. You're dependent upon Ableton in both scenarios, so you get a crash, you're going to have to deal with it in both cases. Unless this is a black tie affair in Carnegie Hall, I think audiences can be understanding about this kind of thing nowadays. Make a joke while restarting & have fun!

They both have at least some degree of AD/DA conversion, just one avoids the latency & only digital for the FX loop. My preference for just the guitar portion of the sound would be to go all analog or all virtual. Why lug the pedalboard & amp modeler if you're going through Ableton anyway? Do all your amp modeling & FX in the box too.

Or I'd take choice 2 but drop the Pigtronix. Then you could be analog purist with the guitar. Mix the guitar & Ableton with an analog mixer.

You said in the first sentence that your performance involves the laptop. You've already made the commitment towards that so what good does it do to worry "how much" of your rig goes down when it crashes. A crash is going to affect you in both scenarios. If you were that worried about stability you'd be using a hardware sequencer, not a laptop in the first place. I'd do whatever combination sounds best & has the most convenience.

kanuck
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by kanuck » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:46 pm

icedsushi wrote:
kanuck wrote: Choice 1:
Guitar
pedalboard
amp modeler (tech 21 liverpool)
ableton

Choice 2:
Guitar
pedalboard
pigtronix keymaster (ableton in the loop)
guitar amp
My personal preference, the 2 choices don't seem different enough to me. They're both somewhat hybrid & neither is completely analog or digital. You're dependent upon Ableton in both scenarios, so you get a crash, you're going to have to deal with it in both cases. Unless this is a black tie affair in Carnegie Hall, I think audiences can be understanding about this kind of thing nowadays. Make a joke while restarting & have fun!

They both have at least some degree of AD/DA conversion, just one avoids the latency & only digital for the FX loop. My preference for just the guitar portion of the sound would be to go all analog or all virtual. Why lug the pedalboard & amp modeler if you're going through Ableton anyway? Do all your amp modeling & FX in the box too.

Or I'd take choice 2 but drop the Pigtronix. Then you could be analog purist with the guitar. Mix the guitar & Ableton with an analog mixer.

You said in the first sentence that your performance involves the laptop. You've already made the commitment towards that so what good does it do to worry "how much" of your rig goes down when it crashes. A crash is going to affect you in both scenarios. If you were that worried about stability you'd be using a hardware sequencer, not a laptop in the first place. I'd do whatever combination sounds best & has the most convenience.
I know they're both a hybrid setup. I guess one is completely reliant on ableton while the other is augumenting ableton. I have considered doing everything in the box but 2 issues arise. Increase of cpu usage= more risk of unreliablity. And also I've always been a pedalboard guy.. I've never done well with multi effects stuff.

Just to let you know the amp modeler is the size of a regular guitar stompbox so it'll be integrated unto the pedalboard.

My performance is based off ableton but it's not life or death if it crashes.. I'll almost always have a drummer with me so we can still play as a 2 piece rock band if something goes wrong.

But as I stated above what I'll probably do is get a di box with a parallel output so i can go directly from my pedalboard/amp modeler to the main soundboard if ableton goes down.

your opinion was much appreciated though.

Cezband
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by Cezband » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:54 pm

And of course there's the filthiest, "if all else fails" skanky solution - have backing tracks based on your Live set on an iPod or other such music device. Better that then completely screwing your gig if your laptop goes down.
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Soundcloud (solo stuff) | One Gear Go (my band)

kanuck
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:29 pm

Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by kanuck » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:56 pm

Cezband wrote:And of course there's the filthiest, "if all else fails" skanky solution - have backing tracks based on your Live set on an iPod or other such music device. Better that then completely screwing your gig if your laptop goes down.
good advice I hadn't thought about another backup for ableton itself. Although the backing tracks bit of it is the smallest use i have for ableton it would still be better than nothing.

LeifonMars
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by LeifonMars » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:41 am

Cezband wrote:And of course there's the filthiest, "if all else fails" skanky solution - have backing tracks based on your Live set on an iPod or other such music device. Better that then completely screwing your gig if your laptop goes down.
To cancel altogether is better than a lame gig imo.
MBP OSX 10.6.8, Live 8.4, MFII, Evolver, Monomachine, Octatrack, APC40, Launchpad

reeloy
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Location: berlin

Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by reeloy » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:59 am

....well, an ableton doc that is prooved.....and you making shure you don't try new things on stage and stay on track.....ableton won't leave you alone on stage...your laptop maybe, someday.....

Go for the easy and simple way on stage...allways.

So choice one.......add a little mixer and an mp3 player to that setup, as backup, and take it from there....

kanuck
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Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by kanuck » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:39 pm

curious what do/would you guys play off your ipods?

reeloy
Posts: 195
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Location: berlin

Re: Should I make my rig analog or digital

Post by reeloy » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:16 pm

....that, what your computer can't play anymore, once he dropped his job on stage....

Or don't u play along with some kind of playback...?

If the computer is your soundrack, well, there is only one solution, anyway, if you're a proffessional...a second backup system....

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