GET A JOB

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
ryst
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:17 am

GET A JOB

Post by ryst » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:36 pm

it's Rant time!!!!

After reading this forum lately I am noticed a lot of complaints that I would like to address. First of all, it's not Ableton's fault that you might not be able to afford there products. If you don't like there products then don't buy them. I have seen people here who not only complain about the price of Live or Operator but also complain that the new synth isn't very good. So does that mean you would buy a not-so-good synth if it was $100 less just because you can afford it? When saying that something is "too expensive", it is only "too expensive" for you. Not for everyone else. If people are going to buy it a the price given, then it is not "too expensive". If no one will buy it, then it can be considered "too expensive". And if you are wondering or assuming I am rich, well....I am far from it. Over the last 4 years I have been in debt between $8,000-$10,000. Last Feb. I started working 2 jobs. 8-10 hours a day, 7 days a week for 6 months straight. I paid of $6,500 in 3 months and got completely out of debt. Then for the next 4 months I kept working like crazy because music is my passion. I didn't even buy my wife an engagement ring! LOL!! It can be done. I know there are people out there who really can't afford certain things but I also know that a lot of people will complain just because they really don't understand the value of hard work. All the gear I own I purchased with cash. I didn't rely on anyone for help. I just worked my ass off. So if I can do it, then anybody can because I am usually one of the laziest people I know. I hate work but if something is truly your passion, you will find a way. Complaining about things like affordability is a waste of valuable energy that could go towards writing a new song. We have to realize that the playing field has been leveled beyond what anyone could have imagined 10 years ago. Pro's who make millions of dollars are using the same gear we are. ABLETON WILL NOT WRITE YOUR NEXT SONG WITH ANY PAST, PRESENT, OR FUTURE PRODUCTS. Be creative with what you have got and challenge yourself.

Ok, I'm finished.

:)
Last edited by ryst on Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mididreamer
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Post by Mididreamer » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:42 pm

So find a rich partner, or perish :lol: !
Live Sonar Cubase Project 5v2 Record/Reason FL Zero SL Oxygen8V2 NT1-A Rode Sennheiser HD590 FW-1884 System Q9550 8 GB 1066 Windows 7
Musictitbits http://www.mididreamer.com/documents/discography.html

Martyn
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Post by Martyn » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:29 pm

Yeeeeeeaaaah, only rich people are cooool!

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:08 pm

I think a good proportion of people here could afford to pay $150 for something if they wanted to - there's always a way.

But what makes people not buy something is their perception of the 'value' of something, what makes it a bargain.

In capitalism the value of something is decided by the market.

value is worked out by a combination of such things as perception and fitness(task related), I forget the rest :)

EG: do you want to buy a working Mercedes for $1000 ? Probably yes.
perception(high status car) + fitness (for task of moving you around) = around $20,000 to me , so I would say it is a bargain.

Now, how about a new Fiat for $5000 ... probably cost price.

The value on that second deal looks bad all of a sudden.

I had a software company a few years back, quite succesful. I had an Idea that 3d interactive realms (mmpog sort of thing) were the next big thing - I spent ONE HELL of a lot of money on it. To give you an idea - 12 months of salaries and dev costs for a staff of 14 developers. Nasty.

Turns out it was only me and a few geeks were really hot on this idea, the market did not set the same 'Value' on it as me and my peers.
The company went bust , the market carried on just fine without me.

I very much doubt that Ableton will go bust, but what you are seeing is the reaction of the market to a mismatch of perception on the value of a product.
The customer is always right, there's more of them!

I'm sure Operator is an excellent product, really marvelous.
So was mine.

but in capitalism the price is set by the market and the value it places on your product, not by the value YOU place on your product.

I'm sure Ableton are much more competent in business than me BTW :)

$150 says Operator is $49.99 within 12 months

ekko
Posts: 424
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:54 am

Re: GET A JOB

Post by ekko » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:14 pm

ryst wrote: Over the last 4 years I have been in debt between $8,000-$10,000.
:)

Perhaps you wouldn't have been in so much debt had you not spent $150 on software that's only really worth $50. 8)

kabuki
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:26 pm
Location: ATX, fyi

Re: GET A JOB

Post by kabuki » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:30 pm

ekko wrote:
ryst wrote: Over the last 4 years I have been in debt between $8,000-$10,000.
:)

Perhaps you wouldn't have been in so much debt had you not spent $150 on software that's only really worth $50. 8)


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

//ehem//

true

8O
15" PB 2.5 Ghz, 4 Gig RAM, 750 GB HD, Live 9 still no cue points or program change messages?!?. Doesn't do shit.

ryst
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:17 am

Post by ryst » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:41 pm

I very much doubt that Ableton will go bust, but what you are seeing is the reaction of the market to a mismatch of perception on the value of a product.
The customer is always right, there's more of them!

I agree with everything except that the customer is always right. That's so untrue. If the customer was always right, then everything would be free and the government would provide everything for us. But everything else you said I agree with.
Perhaps you wouldn't have been in so much debt had you not spent $150 on software that's only really worth $50. icon_cool.gif
lol. I actually was in debt for other reasons. not for music or gear. I was a bit naive with money and I learned my lesson.

Yeeeeeeaaaah, only rich people are cooool!
Not sure what that means but that has nothing to do with me. :roll:
Nathan-
Dual 2.5gig G5, 1.5gig ram, DP 4.5, Live 4, Waves, Pluggo, PSP, Battery, Kontakt, BFD, EWQLSO Gold, M-Audio BX8's, Triton, Microkorg, MOTU 828, MOTU Fastlane USB, DW3, TTP4, Ibanez MMM1, Schecter Stiletto Studio-5

Komplex
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Post by Komplex » Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:12 pm

it's Rant time!!!!

After reading this forum lately I am noticed a lot of complaints that I would like to address. First of all, it's not Ableton's fault that you might not be able to afford there products. If you don't like there products then don't buy them. I have seen people here who not only complain about the price of Live or Operator but also complain that the new synth isn't very good. So does that mean you would buy a not-so-good synth if it was $100 less just because you can afford it? When saying that something is "too expensive", it is only "too expensive" for you. Not for everyone else. If people are going to buy it a the price given, then it is not "too expensive". If no one will buy it, then it can be considered "too expensive". And if you are wondering or assuming I am rich, well....I am far from it. Over the last 4 years I have been in debt between $8,000-$10,000. Last Feb. I started working 2 jobs. 8-10 hours a day, 7 days a week for 6 months straight. I paid of $6,500 in 3 months and got completely out of debt. Then for the next 4 months I kept working like crazy because music is my passion. I didn't even buy my wife an engagement ring! LOL!! It can be done. I know there are people out there who really can't afford certain things but I also know that a lot of people will complain just because they really don't understand the value of hard work. All the gear I own I purchased with cash. I didn't rely on anyone for help. I just worked my ass off. So if I can do it, then anybody can because I am usually one of the laziest people I know. I hate work but if something is truly your passion, you will find a way. Complaining about things like affordability is a waste of valuable energy that could go towards writing a new song. We have to realize that the playing field has been leveled beyond what anyone could have imagined 10 years ago. Pro's who make millions of dollars are using the same gear we are. ABLETON WILL NOT WRITE YOUR NEXT SONG WITH ANY PAST, PRESENT, OR FUTURE PRODUCTS. Be creative with what you have got and challenge yourself.

Ok, I'm finished.

I think you missed the point dood.

Many of us can afford to buy it, but its not value for money. It's not priced realistically. The priority to buy something that is not priced well is very low unless its one of a kind or extremely good or you're wiping your ass with money. If you're wiping your ass with money than I supose good for you and enjoy flushing it down the toilet too. :)

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:31 pm

I agree with everything except that the customer is always right
Of course you can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public, but when that public is going to pay you - best play along.

corygilbert
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thank you!

Post by corygilbert » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:36 pm

I, for one, am more than happy that some others will not be purchasing of using this new product.
I think it is for some of us, made by those who would find use for it themselves.
Think of it like your music everyone,
Follow your own muse, do what suits you and brings you joy and satisfaction, what comes will reakt to that.
When Live was introduced it was seen as a product for performance/ djing etc., to be used with a "proper" sequencer for composition.
We have seen the evolution and purposful misuse of this app for other, (in my opinon) exciting purpose.
If it doesn't suit you, please refrain.
I for one will sleep easier knowing my tools are in the hands of at least marginally less people.

john gordon
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Location: Delaware

Post by john gordon » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:44 pm

it has nothing to with it costing 150.00 .its that its not worth 79.00.it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

FaX-01
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:58 am

Re: GET A JOB

Post by FaX-01 » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:11 am

ryst wrote:it's Rant time!!!!

After reading this forum lately I am noticed a lot of complaints that I would like to address. First of all, it's not Ableton's fault that you might not be able to afford there products. If you don't like there products then don't buy them. I have seen people here who not only complain about the price of Live or Operator but also complain that the new synth isn't very good. So does that mean you would buy a not-so-good synth if it was $100 less just because you can afford it? When saying that something is "too expensive", it is only "too expensive" for you. Not for everyone else. If people are going to buy it a the price given, then it is not "too expensive". If no one will buy it, then it can be considered "too expensive". And if you are wondering or assuming I am rich, well....I am far from it. Over the last 4 years I have been in debt between $8,000-$10,000. Last Feb. I started working 2 jobs. 8-10 hours a day, 7 days a week for 6 months straight. I paid of $6,500 in 3 months and got completely out of debt. Then for the next 4 months I kept working like crazy because music is my passion. I didn't even buy my wife an engagement ring! LOL!! It can be done. I know there are people out there who really can't afford certain things but I also know that a lot of people will complain just because they really don't understand the value of hard work. All the gear I own I purchased with cash. I didn't rely on anyone for help. I just worked my ass off. So if I can do it, then anybody can because I am usually one of the laziest people I know. I hate work but if something is truly your passion, you will find a way. Complaining about things like affordability is a waste of valuable energy that could go towards writing a new song. We have to realize that the playing field has been leveled beyond what anyone could have imagined 10 years ago. Pro's who make millions of dollars are using the same gear we are. ABLETON WILL NOT WRITE YOUR NEXT SONG WITH ANY PAST, PRESENT, OR FUTURE PRODUCTS. Be creative with what you have got and challenge yourself.

Ok, I'm finished.

:)



Come on everybody lets hear a big round of applause and three cheers for Nepotism and Economic Fascism
My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....

ryst
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:17 am

Post by ryst » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:45 am

If you're wiping your ass with money than I supose good for you and enjoy flushing it down the toilet too
lol. I'm not missing the point. How can it not be priced "realistically"? Do you work behind the scenes at Ableton? They are the ones who create the product and price the product according to there own R&D. I think it's a bit ignorant to make statements like that. But that's your opinion and I respect that.
Come on everybody lets hear a big round of applause and three cheers for Nepotism and Economic Fascism
you just made me realize why I should stop coming to this board to read or post. The vibes at OSXaudio.com, musicplayer.com, prowsoundweb.com, gearslutz.com, and unicornation.com is like night and day compared to this place. I know a few people who don't come here anymore because of ignorance like yours. I should have followed them a long time ago. :roll: And now I will.
Nathan-
Dual 2.5gig G5, 1.5gig ram, DP 4.5, Live 4, Waves, Pluggo, PSP, Battery, Kontakt, BFD, EWQLSO Gold, M-Audio BX8's, Triton, Microkorg, MOTU 828, MOTU Fastlane USB, DW3, TTP4, Ibanez MMM1, Schecter Stiletto Studio-5

FaX-01
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:58 am

Post by FaX-01 » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:54 am

Put's "Cry Me a River" on the record player and thinks of RYST :lol: .
My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....

LOFA
Posts: 3364
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:10 pm

Post by LOFA » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:02 am

Damn,
I totally f'n agree w/ Ryst.
I could barely pay my rent a couple years back, so I put babes on a back burner, stopped smoking cigarettes and eventually got a second full-time job. After six months I was able to invest 8 grand into a better than modest home setup. You know what? If I waited another month my dual g5 would have cost me a couple hundred $ less. But, you know what? The time I spent getting to know OSX (from windows) vs staring at the Apple store waiting for the price to drop was invaluable. That is how the real world works.
I know that we are all great artists and thus by default tremendous philosophers, but regardless of wether or not this is the greatest product, Live in general is "The Shit," and as long as we live in a Capitalist economic system (which after years of childish bitching I have learned to appreciate) it is (IMO) in our best interests to suck it up and (after all, what is 150 after we have already purchased something light years ahead of Logic which retails at 1000$ for less than $500) stay on top of the most innovative, pioneering software.
Like many others I wish the operator was more along the lines of melodyne or Ableton's early efforts, but there is time.
Regardless of wether or not Abletons methods or direction are where you want to go right now, alot of us are serious about one day making money out of this innovative, cutting edge software and if the only thing standing in the way of being all up on it $150 I say fuck it. Go a month without alcohal or cigarrettes. Eat in for a couple of days. Stop watching all that tv and work a little harder. Having nice things is so much better than complaining in chat rooms.
There is direct magnitudinal relationship between how much you deserve a piece of eqipment and what comes out through it.
It might just be a matter of time until this forum disintegrates into the level one might expect elsewhere. Frankly I am surprised it has lasted this long.
Hopefully, IMO, the new direction Ableton has taken will shake off some of the dead weight that feels the world owes them something for being so special and unique. Well, guess what!? We all got Live, and with it. all of our short-attention-span, sonic daydreams can be immediately realized.
We all have a lot of diiferent ideas of where Live should be going, and think with the new approach of developing products the will eventually get around to satisfying most of us. They can't, however, do this without money.
Anyone who thinks a one time deposit is going to keep them riding on the shoulders of giants (sorry for the cliche citation) belongs inside the vaacum they were thrust into, long before the industrial revolution.
Thanks Ryst.

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