Who thinks their music is original?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by 3phase » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:38 am

scutheotaku wrote: Mozart wasn't really all that original. He more pushed toward existing genres than create new ones or original ideas (with the obvious exception of the piano concerto). Not to say Mozart was bad - he was great. But he's more known for adapting and improving others' ideas than originating his own.

Much the same with Hendrix.

sorry.. you cant categorize true genius.. neither monzart or hendrix have invented the music of theire time but surly brought it to new hights.. still mountains

adapting and improoving others ideas? no man...true originals thru and thru

music is an adapting and improoving idea..when it has this fluid quality it is an original

its really funny how much people seem to have difficulties to get the difference between created music and fabricated music...
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by 3phase » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:49 am

aphex twin is a very good example of an original original...of cause he was copied often..but in his best tracks he is still outstanding original..forget the break beats..how to do sweet melodies and be original with that.. thats true art.. doing some strange unheard noise is easy when you are an early adopter..making some unheard melodys-- uhhh.. thats quite something..

in idian music they have theese raga rythms..whenever someone manages to create a trully new one that is not just a combination of the allready listed ones its a big event..

a breakbeat was never such a big event..actualy an ancient element of keltic music.. for the european side..

or an ancient element of african music..see the famous burundi drummers for example..

no surprise that the brits island became the breakbeat hotspot of the globe... where the african and keltic background met..

again..stoneage music with synthezisers ..

i love that :-) because that is fresh..


you guys should get a bit more tribal ..than you maybe learn about beeing original again
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Tone Deft
Posts: 23745
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: SF, CA

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by Tone Deft » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:25 am

scutheotaku wrote:Also, Hendrix was only who he was because his marketed himself. If Hendrix was just another guy who happened to play guitar like he did, no one would have cared. He truly didn't come up with any original ideas, playing styles, or anything...In my opinion (as an accomplished guitarist), Hendrix was extremely sloppy and was definitely lacking in tone. He did have good melodic sensibilities, but there's where is skill/talent ends in my humble opinion.
uhhhh fuck you pal.

:P :wink:

I've heard that argument before, let's just say you've talked to guys like me IRL on the other side and be done with it.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, guitars, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

glenn303
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:03 pm

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by glenn303 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:27 am

3phase wrote:aphex twin is a very good example of an original original...of cause he was copied often..but in his best tracks he is still outstanding original..forget the break beats..how to do sweet melodies and be original with that.. thats true art.. doing some strange unheard noise is easy when you are an early adopter..making some unheard melodys-- uhhh.. thats quite something..

in idian music they have theese raga rythms..whenever someone manages to create a trully new one that is not just a combination of the allready listed ones its a big event..

a breakbeat was never such a big event..actualy an ancient element of keltic music.. for the european side..

or an ancient element of african music..see the famous burundi drummers for example..

no surprise that the brits island became the breakbeat hotspot of the globe... where the african and keltic background met..

again..stoneage music with synthezisers ..

i love that :-) because that is fresh..



you guys should get a bit more tribal ..than you maybe learn about beeing original again

I will agree with you on Aphex Twin, spot on.

Tone Deft
Posts: 23745
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: SF, CA

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by Tone Deft » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:37 am

scutheotaku wrote:Ok, keep worshiping your little upside down guitar beater god :lol:
Jimi is an influence.

who are yours? can we just skip the bullshit? ;)
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, guitars, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by 3phase » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:55 am

scutheotaku wrote:[Generally tribal music isn't interested at all in originality or variety. Really, you could credit tribal music with giving the idea of repetitive, "meaningless," copycat music.

guy..from which planet are you coming? :lol: she came from planet nerd..whooooowhooo whoo whoo whoooo who..dabab ..dabab

seriously..you describe european clasical music with repetetiv copycat music..at least from the perspectiv of the orchestra.. where all parts of the orchestra act in ideal as robots..that fabrikate musik. quite opposite to the tribe...

the wild tribal bunch never mades it to sound 2 times the same nor even would they intend to do so . it´s just pure instinctiv playing and interaction. maybe some themes ..but theese emerge differently each time..the skill set is differnt each time and the state of booze is different each time

that is original work any time they do it..as an act to praise the gods and shake theire buts and weeners and boobs..


ok.. i give up.. jimi hendrix had a bad tone. :roll: oh my..

. sure.. sloppy bastard.. never learned to play it correctly..and never made it to really play it twice..too sloppy..

or just too original?
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by 3phase » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:27 am

i think he was the first doing this all on acid an manged to shake his weener while doing so.

that qualifies as original for me.. you think he is a copy cat..
and again we have in this wonderfull thread the wild theorie that evrybody is just a copycat..and originality is actually a failure.. an act of being sloppy..so the good musican is doing an accurate copy..and dont worrys.


I say again..you semm to lack knowledge about music and create argumnets to justify your own shortcomings..

so we cant solve this

copycats dont change the world.. the cant..the only follow changes..

has hendrix changed the world?

was there a wana be lefthander trend ever before him? would a copycat find own copycats?

or is that a feature only originals have?

i rest my case ..who hasnt understood my point by now never will
:lol:
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Machinesworking
Posts: 11118
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:08 am

First off, no group I named is in my "hero" list per say. The reason they were mentioned was because they each spawned whole genres of music, either alone, or in combination with a very small group of other musicians.

Ramones - Punk

Black Sabbath - Heavy Metal

Throbbing Gristle - Industrial

Kraftwerk - most electronic music

Venetian Snares - Breakcore

Grandmaster Flash - the heavier side of rap

Slayer - Speed Metal of all kinds

Bauhaus - Goth

etc.

Nothing finished about the list, it was pretty random, and you can add all kinds of asides, (Aphex Twin being the real father of Breakcore, The Cure being the first to bring a Goth sound to the masses, Venom being the real speed metal guys etc. ), but it misses the point that these groups were helping to define new genres.

Plus, anybody who thinks Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page are better guitar players than Hendrix needs to check themselves in to some clinic and get some sort of medication for their lack of taste. Seriously, Hendrix could play all kinds of off the beat noise and still make it sound good and work around into a groove, there are a TON of audio examples of Page being seemingly out of sync with Bonham and Jones, literally. Clapton is definitely IMO the absolute #1 most overrated guitar player ever, boring boring boring boring. Clapton takes no chances, Hendrix took a ton. Hendrix is original (metal lead guitar players all owe their left nut to Hendrix), Clapton was a scholar of an established style, the Blues. he will never play an original note in his life. Mike McCready? I like how at least 80% of the guitar player you mentioned would say Jimi was a MAJOR influence on them, LOL!

It really doesn't matter IMO whether you like a group or not in terms of considering them to be embryonic. I'm not a big Ramones fan, but them speeding up The Stooges and NY Dolls was the birth of Punk Rock, that's a game changer. I forgot about Aphex Twin because I've never been a big fan, but he's definitely an original!

Note that none of this is about whether you like the music, that's beside the point when talking about originality, mostly originators are hated or under appreciated like someone mentioned before.

The Leveller
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:20 pm

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by The Leveller » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:33 am

Oh no, we've descended into 'who's the biggest guitar god' territory.

In amongst the fluff 3-phase makes some good points about the majority of producers illusion and chasing the ego etc.

But to be fair, trying to suggest that ego doesn't have a place in music is ridiculous, most musicians, particularly successful ones are ridiculously egotistical. It's part of what got them there in the first place. It doesn't matter who original or unique you are or aren't if your ego allows you to believe that you are and you ignore all those that say otherwise.

Now then...top ten guitar solos of all time. :lol:

LoopStationZebra
Posts: 10586
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:33 pm

scutheotaku wrote: Jimi Hendrix

Oh my, dude. It sounds to me like you really just don't like Hendrix's music, and perhaps that has clouded your judgement a bit. :wink:

I cannot think of a single guitar player who has had more of an influence on rock/pop music, and he was utterly original. His originality had absolutely NOTHING to do with his technical skill as a guitar player. The most important element that made him completely unique, to the point where the established guitar gods at the time practically WEPT when they would see him play for the first time, is as follows:

Fearlessness
Up until Hendrix, every single guitar player on the planet played with a certain level of physical and emotional control. Be it chord progressions or solos or whatever, there was always a certain level of restraint going on. Even in the most emotionally raw moments on a Robert Johnson record, his playing - while certainly amazing - was measured. Hendrix completely and totally redefined that level of expression. He was fearless in his approach. It's hard looking back on it now, but people at the time were actually FRIGHTENED to a certain extent because they'd heard nothing like the loose cannon that was Hendrix. That he, in fact, DID have control is what makes him great. From that moment on, guitarists would never play the same way again.

That fearlessness, incidently, had a profound effect on Miles Davis. No small feat.
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

LoopStationZebra
Posts: 10586
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:47 pm

I'll amend my comments on Hendrix to say that no other MUSICIAN, of any type, had played with the kind of fearlessness and apparent reckless abandon that he did. :P

Remember that scene in Back to the Future, when Marty McFly shows up at the school dance in the 50s and scares the audience with a bunch of Eddie VanHalen licks? THAT is what Hendrix did, lol.

Oh, and I'm by no means a fan of Hendrix, btw. I've got a couple of albums, but it's just not my cuppa tea.

:lol:
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

Forge.
Posts: 5792
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by Forge. » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:07 pm

I idolised Hendrix as a teen/20s guitarist as everyone did, but he came on the telly at woodstock not long ago and I watched it with great enthusiasm then found about 10 minutes into the 128th guitar solo that it was really fucking boring to watch on TV in 20xx

in 1969 I'm sure it would have blown me away to be there, but any solo for that length of time becomes a tedious exercise in ego without the context of actually being there......

The other amazing thing is like so many rockstars he was only 27 when he died. It's fucking annoying now to think of 20 somethings as the envelope pushers..... the filthy young whipper snappers, they know NOTHING!!! .... :lol:

LoopStationZebra
Posts: 10586
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:51 pm

abletontrainer.com wrote:I idolised Hendrix as a teen/20s guitarist as everyone did, but he came on the telly at woodstock not long ago and I watched it with great enthusiasm then found about 10 minutes into the 128th guitar solo that it was really fucking boring to watch on TV in 20xx

in 1969 I'm sure it would have blown me away to be there, but any solo for that length of time becomes a tedious exercise in ego without the context of actually being there......

The other amazing thing is like so many rockstars he was only 27 when he died. It's fucking annoying now to think of 20 somethings as the envelope pushers..... the filthy young whipper snappers, they know NOTHING!!! .... :lol:

:lol: Nice points, f.

It is difficult, in this age of virtuoso players like Buckethead or whomever, to listen to Hendrix the guitar player and not want to make comparisons or think "meh, the playing is not so great and it's kinda boring me at this point." I think that's what happens with a lot of folks that say that Hendrix is over-rated. They are comparing technical ability and prowess to current artists who have really taken all that to unthinkable levels in rock/pop music. There was also an enormous gap between Hendrix the live artist, and Hendrix the studio musician. Many a Hendrix scholar has bemoaned the fact that his raw energy and fearlessness of playing was never properly captured in the studio.

While that solo seems long and self indulgent now, that's another important thing that Hendrix pioneered - the notion of massive extended solos that reached deep into what was happening in the jazz world at the time. NO ONE was doing that kind of thing in the rock/pop world. Solos were there, but they were relatively short and sweet. No one was making a PhD out of guitar solos until Hendrix, really. It blew people away who where like "Um...he's going to be getting back to the chorus sometime this year, right?" :lol: That sort of thing (rightfully or wrongfully) opened the door for an endless number of rock musicians to stand on stage on endlessly jam.

He also pretty much wrote the book on live improvisation in the rock music world; completely taking his songs in entirely new directions at the spur of the moment. Cream and others had dabbled in this kind of jazz performance, but nothing like Hendrix.

Lord knows what he would have done had he not died so young. The collaboration that was talked about but sadly never happened; one that many feel would have REDEFINIED both jazz and rock, was a record with he and Miles Davis. 8O
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

steko
Posts: 3354
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:29 pm

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by steko » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:28 pm

Machinesworking wrote:Plus, anybody who thinks Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page are better guitar players than Hendrix needs to check themselves in to some clinic and get some sort of medication for their lack of taste.
+1000

LSZ on Hendrix: +1000

If another name must be mentioned, it's the fucking awesome PETER GREEN!
Rahad Jackson wrote:My Awesome Mix Tape #6

LoopStationZebra
Posts: 10586
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Who thinks their music is original?

Post by LoopStationZebra » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:05 am

^ Dude, lol. Don't take my word for it. There's dozens upon dozens of well respected music scholars and authors who have written about Jimi's profound originality and influence on music. You can fight it. You can disagree. But his influence is still going strong.

I too am a huge Buckethead fan. He's easily in my top 10 fav musicians list. 8)
I came for the :lol:
But stayed for the :x

Post Reply