why is my final track volume so low??

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Tarekith
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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by Tarekith » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:51 pm

kclarkmusic wrote:It is also a bit strange when I import other peoples mastered tracks, into Live, and Live's meters read them at well above zero (+4 or 5 usually)
Do you have warping turned on for that track? You'll see that overage due to the warping in Live.
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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by Tarekith » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:15 pm

A lot of it can do with the frequencies in your mixdown, or how busy it is too. If you've got a lot of subsonic information that's hitting the limiter, the meters might show you it's reducing the gain a lot, but it still might sound quieter compared to the reference track. Meters help, but you still need a good balanced mixdown.

It's hard to tell for sure based on low quality streaming MP3's, but the links you provided sound pretty close in volume to me.
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The Carpet Cleaner
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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:08 am

wow it's very similar !

Listening to a low volume, I feel your track is actually louder...

his track pumps a bit more.

Pretty good job I think.

Do what Tarekith says. And also, if without using limiter, your track has only 8dB of dynamic range, you need to increase the dynamics in your mix.

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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:39 am

alright, I'm telling you the secret :mrgreen:
raise the volume of your drums, kick and snare... more dynamics, and more pumping. There is nothing else to know.

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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by pepezabala » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:33 am

funken wrote:
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:Yes, the question is why do you want your track to be loud and competitive? don't you prefer to have a very quiet track, so when the kids shuffles their ipod and select your track randomly, they can't hear shit and next straight away :mrgreen:

Seriously : get the TT dynamic range meter first, and load a track similars to what you want to produce. Notice how much dynamic range they usualy have.

Then on your mastering, fist try to compress a bit to reduce some peaks, but make sure you still have transients so it does not sounds flat and dull. you can also put some saturation as well. Next you can EQ if you want. While doing all of this, always check the Dynamic range meter and try to be close to the Dynamic range of your example, but still leave some dB for later (leave +5db or more so you still got room to play with the limiter).

After that, place a limiter, and simply lower the treshold until the dynamic range meter is about the same as your example.

Keep in mind that you will only get a good result and a similar volume level only if you mix what correct at the beginning. For example, if your Dynamic range is already lower than your target, and your volume is not louder , that mean your mix itself is flat and dull. Try to increase the dynamic in the mix.
It's all about balance.

Then you will get women and $
Ok so I downloaded Dynamic range mixer and compared my current tune to the reference one. Mine was about 5db range and the reference one was 8. So I lowered my limiter (Pro-L) til my dynamic range was 8. I had to drop the gain from 8.8 to 4.6 db. Then nothing was really being limited (red) in the limiter and it seemed quieter than the reference track, whereas before it sounded the same volume.

So, I have more range but at the expense of volume. Well, It isnt actually quieter, that's the thing, it just sounds quieter. Both tracks peak at just below 0 and have an average RMS at about -10db.

I bloody knew something was missing, and now I know I know something is, but what?

PS my comparison track is Sebastien Leger's remix of Dog Tag and mine is on soundcloud, Play it Loud, not exactly where I am up to with it but near as dammit.

reference:
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF1617638-02-01-02.mp3

mine:
http://soundcloud.com/kenny-da-funk/play-it-loud-2

On my master I also have the Glue and Sonic Maximiser.
listening to both tracks on my crappy headphones right now I find not too much difference in overall volume, but the Sebastian Leger track uses definetly edgier sounds, e.g. the hihat. That makes them stand out more somehow.

Nice when people post stuff to compare.

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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by pulsoc » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:56 pm

seattletruth wrote: No offense, but you sound like a pussy.
New sig!

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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:18 am

funken wrote:cheers for the replies, I will have a go at those suggestions.

ok, just been cranking up some of the drums, and making the hats a bit harsher. Made an interesting discovery. I played the kick on its own and you would think that had a high dynamic range, but no. Not particularly. So I kinda intuitively thought of turning off the release and sustain, and a bit of decay, not much audible difference, but it did do the trick on the meter. Obviously I was muddying things up with too much tail end on the kick.

Now according to the levels I have about the same dynamic range as my reference track (8.0) and same average RMS (-10 db). My limiter is down from about +8.8 gain to + 5.6. And more to the point I think its getting closer in actual sound. Shame my base line isnt as funky.

Now, about my carpets...
Yep, you got it funken ! :)

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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by 3ug3n3 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:41 am

The question still hasn't been answered... why does garageband export tracks so much louder than Ableton?

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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by Tarekith » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:54 am

If remember right, it normalizes everything you Export by default.
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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:55 am

3ug3n3 wrote:The question still hasn't been answered... why does garageband export tracks so much louder than Ableton?
Maybe there is an inbuilt limiter?

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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by 3ug3n3 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:25 pm

The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
3ug3n3 wrote:The question still hasn't been answered... why does garageband export tracks so much louder than Ableton?
Maybe there is an inbuilt limiter?
It's a pretty good inbuilt limiter/compressor in comparison to the one(s) in Ableton. Very strange. Maybe Ableton just works on a much lower overall level? Super frustrating when you want to master your tracks...

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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by Tarekith » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:26 pm

Just checked. There's some effects on the master channel, but they are off by default.
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Yhoda
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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by Yhoda » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:27 am

Hi ive had the same problem and i know its nothing to do with mastering. I made a song on caustic 3 a mobile DAW and i exported all the tracks in 32 bit wav and also 450 bit ogg too compare with songs on my phone and it was near on the same volume just abit muddy. So i just did some eq,ing cutting out the mud boosting and what not. I didnt use compression or limiters cos it was louder already and much cleaner. Plus i used compressers and limiters inside caustic so after export guess whatt??? The original crappy ogg file was louder and new pre mastered track was low in volume. I put it back onto my phone with the ogg file so its not the player either. I play my music 3 to 4 clicks of the max and my mastered version on full volume still wasnt as loud. And just this sec i thought that NO ONE has mentioned AUDIO DRIVERS!!!!! Could this be why??? Mine is set to NME or something and i run audio throu my soundblaster augity ai. Will using asio work? Maybe someone should test it i cant test till sunday when i get on my pc. Maybe you guys who dont have issues have Macs?

Ps when i first starting producing i was on FL studio back when i knew f all about mastering and i never had this volume merlarky and i used ASIO4ALL sound driver

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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:29 pm

Funk N. Furter wrote:
On your master channel you want some light compression, the Glue is highly recommended, some EQ, and if you can afford it, BBE Sonic Maximiser (to add bottom and top after the compressor which can suck out a bit) and either Fabfilter Pro-L limiter or Waves L1 or something like that, a professional limiter which allows you to crank up the level without sounding bad.
My tools for pseudo-mastering — I'm not going to pretend I can do actual mastering as I don't have the setup or the room nor the 1000+ tracks experience so why tell myself I can when it's so worth paying for if releasing? — are the Waves C4 and L1 that I picked up for just a small amount. The C4 carefully and gently set helps even out the frequencies and gel them — kinda using it like a master EQ even if it isn't one —  and the L1 takes care about bringing up the volume and just kissing my roof at -0.3dB (usually). Maybe some really nudging EQ adjustments too.

I'd still recommend anyone to try to learn the Multiband Dynamics effect as well as the Glue compressor and oversampled EQ8 for mastering purposes. Chances are these will sound good enough. Don't just slam them on though. Listen and do many trial runs.

There are at least a few chains in Live to learn from under Audio Effects > Audio Effects Rack > Mixing and Mastering that you can find in the Live browser. My pick to investigate would be the EQ & Glue Master and to that add the Spectrum Slow Average Line preset to view graphically what you're doing. There are more refined third party native mastering audio effects racks to look around for and learn a few things from. I don't have these at hand now. Maybe someone else knows which ones I'm talking about.

Again, make sure you learn all the controls of these audio effects and start the pseudo-mastering session with your own rack preset, where all of these settings are set to not affect the sound at all. Then use your ears to arrive at what you want. Alternatively have a really gentle chain preset that you like and mix into that from the start. Try to refrain from going over the top.

I route all my tracks, returns and busses to a separate audio track that I call "Main Buss" with all its sends inactivated and put all master effects on there. Next to that I have a track with reference recordings, that I can switch over to for comparisons. I don't have anything on my master anymore except my Waves NX (Virtual Mix Room). I export the "Main Buss" when rendering without normalizing or dithering (The L1 dithers).

But before you do anything with this make sure you have the best room you can to make your mixes in as well as your pseudo-masters (You are not a master engineer until you are one and that might not be the life you want) and do separate sessions for mixdowns and pseudo-mastering and do not listen in between.
Make some music!

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Re: why is my final track volume so low??

Post by AnthonyZarou » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:24 pm

I have been having the exact same problem... I've just recently learned to master, and I'm not super good at it. When I put my limiter on and put the gain up, the track sounds very bad. But the main problem I'm having is that whenever I try to get the volume at just the right level, (Where it isn't in the red) It sounds really quiet. I've tried using the utility tool, and when I export my track without normalzing, it only helps a little. Kinda sucks.

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