Prime Loops are amazings

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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3phase
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by 3phase » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:11 pm

ze2be wrote:
Brock wrote:
seattletruth wrote:.. its like drawing the Mona Lisa with a coloring book; first of all its not original and second of all it involved no thinking.
+1 :D
Hahaha! Funny :D
However, there are exeptions. What about Gaudi? Hes mossaics was made from ceramics not created by him. He ordered them crushed to pieces, and directed hes crew to put it back together in new shapes. Now thats a cheater for you!! :D

In music, Amon Thobin comes to mind, and dj Shadow, to name a couple. And not to forget the whole collage scene starting with Tape Beatles, People Like Us, and later copied and brickwalled by Prefuse 73, followed and developed further with a combination of samplism and acoustic musicians, by Flying Lotus (did you know he has family ties to John Coltrane)

pff..you guys allways use sample artists and collage artits as refference and justification for generic music production without any value or own idea behind..



In this thread its about the prime loops..they are actually 100% cheaters tools.. by concept and design..

magix music maker refills.
they sell theire stuff as inspirational tools to add individuality too your tracks.. an individuallity you buy from them ... tsss..

the question is.. is a piece of music individual and has an own strong idea behind ? than it dont matters what tools was used..
that applies very well to Amon Tobin who really takes a lot from old records but defently composes something new with it.. however the atmosphere is taken from the record.. but such things qualify as sampling art.
And Gaudi? i dont know what he has to do with it.. wether he uses ceramic bits or broken bottels or mud dont makes much difference..thats unique creation and nobody expects an architect to make theier own bricks.. gaudi acxtually did.. but that has nothing to do with sampling..thats rather recycling..
like when you would make tiny 50 ms grains out of an song and use that grains to build a string sound that wasnt even present in the original song.. that is of cause not using others musical ideas ...

Is it made from a premade construction kit? than its lamers work.. pretty easy to seperate.. at least when you know the loops they are selling here..But who knows all the loops?
So people get away with the cheating of the audience.
Any guy that uses them and sells theire hooks under his name should be actually blacklisted and blamed in public.. its fraud and when there would be a musicans union they would fight against pretending to do original work that is based on bought loops..

When you name guys that used samples succesfully for something individual and strong you better asked if they used premade sample loops.. and in case they do better credit the producers of the sample loops for theire individuality ...

as prime sound says..to add a spicy of individuality for your otherwise boring and lame output..
And they are cheap..

when you aim to be a releasing artist..and need such cheap loops to spice up your work with individuality or to get an idea.. you are in the wrong business.
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oddstep
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by oddstep » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:52 pm

Sort of yes. Loop packs are basically muzak construction sets. Nothing wrong with that... but its nothing to do with Romantic self expression.
Sort of no. Plenty of amazing jungle and 2step made using sample packs. So long as the track's got an edge, who cares. Boring is boring, regardless of how original it is.

3phase
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by 3phase » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:03 pm

oddstep wrote:Sort of yes. Loop packs are basically muzak construction sets. Nothing wrong with that... but its nothing to do with Romantic self expression.
Sort of no. Plenty of amazing jungle and 2step made using sample packs. So long as the track's got an edge, who cares. Boring is boring, regardless of how original it is.

and than people wonder why nobody is talking about drum&bass anymore..

Thats most certainly a genre killed by sample packs and driven by running away from samplepacks..

Its actually a form of cancer and ther seems to be no cure.. its only possible to call the practize by its name..cheating and the users of samplepacks lamers..
That might awake at least in some the wright attitude towards music making.

When you want to impress a crowd without the hard work of producing music become a dj.. you dont need to pretend to be the author of the music there and get the props anyway.
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chaibuka
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by chaibuka » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:14 pm

3phase wrote:you are in the wrong business.[/b]
How many Ableton Live owners actually make any profit off their music. For most people it's a hobby with maybe some kidding themselves that they would eventually get better. How many 2grand les pauls were bought by people that never made a dime. Amateurs hit the golf course everyday and people don't ask them to leave because they're wasting their time.

The Carpet Cleaner
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:17 pm

for the prime loops products, I was actually more talking about any loops that are NOT directly for electronic music.
Like NYC session, or ambient funk.
http://www.primeloops.com/loops-samples ... t-funk~97/

chaibuka
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by chaibuka » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:51 pm

I kind of liked ambient funk. Seemed like a jump start for some good ideas. I already got a full time job so I' m not surrounded by a diverse bunch a musicians throwing out riffs for me jam with.

ze2be
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by ze2be » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:12 pm

3phase wrote:In this thread its about the prime loops..they are actually 100% cheaters tools.. by concept and design..
...when you aim to be a releasing artist..and need such cheap loops to spice up your work with individuality or to get an idea.. you are in the wrong business.
OK ,fair enough. The Gaudi metaphor was just made to battle mix the mona lisa metaphor. :)
? ? ? ? ?

ze2be
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by ze2be » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:16 pm

Those in the media business don't really need to give a dam.
? ? ? ? ?

3phase
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by 3phase » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:01 pm

chaibuka wrote:
3phase wrote:you are in the wrong business.[/b]
How many Ableton Live owners actually make any profit off their music. For most people it's a hobby with maybe some kidding themselves that they would eventually get better. How many 2grand les pauls were bought by people that never made a dime. Amateurs hit the golf course everyday and people don't ask them to leave because they're wasting their time.

amateurs dont release records..at least that was the way we had in the past.. only originals and copy cats that try to steal business from the original artists release records.. booth are pros.. the secondary on the pirate side..

theese days we have much more people on the pirate side.. but amateur pirates, unconciously and not very comercialy orientated.. but nevertheless damaging for the whole releasing scene. people do fake music..release this on fake labels.. dont buy original records and just download them on pirate share sites... and even play this in some clubs and actually earn money with this 100% stolen show.. even in dj sets there are many people that just copy the charts of some famous dj and play them in the same order they appear in that charts..
aso aso.. It seems to be allwright to be a fake, but its not.. its poor

an amateur that just follows his hobby in private dont pretends anything and can use any preset that brings fun.. however.. especially with this shy type of hobbymusicam i often see the most original work and love to the detail.. theese guys actually love what they are doing and get the fun out of trying things themself.
And dont ned to finish a track quickly.

Beside total noobs and teens its rather the people that actually want to make a carreer where you find more and more fakers that use any tool available the can find to sound exactly like sombody else..or just have all the wright sound to hit the wright buttons with an audience to impress the unexperianced consumer...
So i ve seen quite a few people that do 100% generic music but consider themself pros and act like that.


And regarding the less pauls.. hobby players usually have the most expensiv equipment because they dont make a living from music.. usually no problem because they dont get with the good tools as far as a fulltime pro with basic stuff, and they dont release records.. So its no unfair competition there..

I would say that people can play with loops as much as they want.. maybe just to analyze them and learn..but tehy shouldnt release this generic crap.. its pretty much like releasing hacked software.. the original programmers dont see a penny than from the user of this hack..as original producers wont see a penny of the users that allready spend all for faker tracks
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3phase
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by 3phase » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:08 pm

scutheotaku wrote: 1. I've combined several non-EDM loops together to make a short track (anywhere from 5 to 30 seconds), and mixed them together in the style of funk and motown records - so, essentially I'm making a miniature song out of funk/soul loops. I then sample that "song" and then use the sample in much the same way as artists like Daft Punk or DJ Shadow. So, I'm not really using loops as my song, I'm using the loops to make a song that I then sample. I used this technique on this song (though actually the drums and bass were programmed)- http://soundcloud.com/scutheotaku/kewl-with-a-k-e-w

2. Using the loops in a way that someone like Amon Tobin would use a sample, i.e. mangling them and what not so that they sound basically nothing like the original. I did this on this track (which is admittedly not my best work - I was actually considering removing it until I got some good comments)- http://soundcloud.com/scutheotaku/12-colon-26-am

Would you consider those two methods cheating?

theese 2 tracks dont try to pretend to be something special so you cant call it cheating because nobody gets cheated..
however they dont sound especially interesting or alive.. so you probably cheated yourself somehow by using too much generic source material.. where is the soul supposed to come from when you just move presampled blocks?

however cheating is when you use hooky lines from somebody else..or do a jingle in the dubstep style even when you have no clue what dubstep is, by using a dedicated construction set..
Last edited by 3phase on Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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3phase
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by 3phase » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:24 pm

ze2be wrote:Those in the media business don't really need to give a dam.

they should give a damn..but in the end its the stupidity of their customers and the litlle value they give to music this day that lets them get thru with it.. besides not every little advert or radio bridge needs to be a work of art..

however..in earlier times theese guy had to sample a techno record when they need an authentic techno tune..therfore there was some money transfer to original artists.. theese days they have all the perfectly produced connstruction sets..royality free. thats perfect to do a quick job..cant really damn them because who is in the advertizing is into prostitution somehow anyway.. However..theire job oportunitys suffer too on the long run when every practicant can do it aswell.. as soon you devalue original work anybody can do it.

I think this whole everybody play producer now game is the revenge of the establishment for rocknroll..


in earlier times you had to throw away your establishement carreer chance to do music.. but we had inovation and heros at any corner...
theese days you just do it quickly in your freetime and achive proffessional sounding results without serious investion in equipment or time.. so people that never took a risk to do music are the majority now.. Why on earth this type should take stylistic risks within theire productions? They are just not the type for taking risks.. And premade lops are perfect to avoid risks.
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dredd i knight
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by dredd i knight » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:51 am

1.Andy Warhol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell's_Soup_Cans used a screen printing method; a mechanised process that made REAL PAINTERS accuse him of cheating..tracing the pattern and blocking it out on a silk screen(a process I studied), was not considered art at the time... Same with photography in it's early days.
2. prime loops make construction kits and sample packs, just cos you buy one doesn't mean you can't be creative with it... http://soundsandgear.com/prime-loops-sm ... ry-review/
All this self limiting bs that peeps are spouting is the same thing every artist of the previous generation spouts... Fear of being superceeded by technology is nothing new, it's been happening since the wheel. It's funny to how completely unreasonable it can make us, and how suddenly one can become the arbiter for what one thinks people should be allowed to call art...

3phase
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by 3phase » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:33 pm

dredd i knight wrote:1.Andy Warhol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell's_Soup_Cans used a screen printing method; a mechanised process that made REAL PAINTERS accuse him of cheating..tracing the pattern and blocking it out on a silk screen(a process I studied), was not considered art at the time... Same with photography in it's early days.
2. prime loops make construction kits and sample packs, just cos you buy one doesn't mean you can't be creative with it... http://soundsandgear.com/prime-loops-sm ... ry-review/
All this self limiting bs that peeps are spouting is the same thing every artist of the previous generation spouts... Fear of being superceeded by technology is nothing new, it's been happening since the wheel. It's funny to how completely unreasonable it can make us, and how suddenly one can become the arbiter for what one thinks people should be allowed to call art...

? making generic music from loop construction kids never will be considred as art..
And with this practize you also pull all elctronic pieces that are done in artfull ways down the drain with your massproduction of generic electro stuff. In Germany the Publishingrights organisations think loud about removing the status of original music from all the electronic stuff.. so its all than royality free because its not considred as composing anymore..
Thank you army of fakers for this one.. you really are the pride of the scene...

and that you can be creative even with a casio watch that makes beeps is out of question.. I just question that guys that deal with prime loops are the creative type.. they just pretend to be something what they never will be and look for cheap affektion of a so called crowd...
its really funny that such limited people call the quest for banning such sample packs limiting..

The absence of such packs would only limit you.. all producers i know personaly wouldnt even realize when this kind of products would be taken from the market.

You defend this shit like drug addicts defend theier drug..instead just beeing quite and shy about your use of theese fake creativity enhancements.
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The Leveller
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by The Leveller » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:16 pm

3phase is right.

I've been around this forum for a very long time in a number of different guises and on this topic, 3 phase has always been right.

Its just the Ableton bashing that gets a bit tiring. :wink:

jamief
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Re: Prime Loops are amazings

Post by jamief » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:32 pm

dredd i knight wrote:1.Andy Warhol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell's_Soup_Cans used a screen printing method; a mechanised process that made REAL PAINTERS accuse him of cheating..tracing the pattern and blocking it out on a silk screen(a process I studied), was not considered art at the time... Same with photography in it's early days.
2. prime loops make construction kits and sample packs, just cos you buy one doesn't mean you can't be creative with it... http://soundsandgear.com/prime-loops-sm ... ry-review/
All this self limiting bs that peeps are spouting is the same thing every artist of the previous generation spouts... Fear of being superceeded by technology is nothing new, it's been happening since the wheel. It's funny to how completely unreasonable it can make us, and how suddenly one can become the arbiter for what one thinks people should be allowed to call art...
Exactly - even Mozart was decried by his peers !

3 Phase seems to think that because you buy a sample cd or pack that you are obliged to use all the parts of that pack on the 1 track and there is no room for using component parts of lots of different sample packs and vsti's and hardware synths into something that does the business.
Box and corner spring to mind

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