Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Forge.
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by Forge. » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:21 am

agent314 wrote:I love how plugin delay compensation is the new cool thing to hate on Live for, when 6 weeks ago nobody so much as mentioned it.
that's probably about the time Timothy Allan released his latest video series and told everyone about it, isn't it? ;)

It's his fault! :D

Just like global warming is the Cows' fault

hps909
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by hps909 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:37 am

because i cant stand arrangement view in live ... it doesn't have the tools i'm used to in cubase ... i rough out a groove in live then transfer and do everything else in cubase
macbook pro 2.5 i5 os 10.12 , TC Electronik Konnekt 48, Live 9, Cubase 9, event 20/20, Waldorf Blofeld, roland tb-03, roland Jx-03, korg mikrokontrol, novation nocturn, akai lpd8

fx23
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by fx23 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:36 am

abletontrainer.com wrote:
agent314 wrote:I love how plugin delay compensation is the new cool thing to hate on Live for, when 6 weeks ago nobody so much as mentioned it.
that's probably about the time Timothy Allan released his latest video series and told everyone about it, isn't it? ;)
It's his fault! :D
Just like global warming is the Cows' fault
no, it's about how every single old user that always felt the groove was more and more messed with process was right.
always had to play with the offset of autopan to compensate my external poco dsp that was high latency and global nightmare to use with live since V5, among all other high latency natives. How every user that attempted to deal with midi clocked vst noticed it was impossible task, how every user that spent time drawing strong synced/phased stuff knew the weird floppy things would occur later and make the detail/sync work irrelevant.
Maybe not everybody noticed this, not in every situation, not in every way of working, but abes do know they have to fix it from 2005, and even before as a reflexion on the global compensation. that's 6 years ago...(and we wait automs from 9 years..)
nothing is new, it just comes and goes time to times...

Forge.
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by Forge. » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:52 am

fx23 wrote:
abletontrainer.com wrote:
agent314 wrote:I love how plugin delay compensation is the new cool thing to hate on Live for, when 6 weeks ago nobody so much as mentioned it.
that's probably about the time Timothy Allan released his latest video series and told everyone about it, isn't it? ;)
It's his fault! :D
Just like global warming is the Cows' fault
no, it's about how every single old user that always felt the groove was more and more messed with process was right.
always had to play with the offset of autopan to compensate my external poco dsp that was high latency and global nightmare to use with live since V5, among all other high latency natives. How every user that attempted to deal with midi clocked vst noticed it was impossible task, how every user that spent time drawing strong synced/phased stuff knew the weird floppy things would occur later and make the detail/sync work irrelevant.
Maybe not everybody noticed this, not in every situation, not in every way of working, but abes do know they have to fix it from 2005, and even before as a reflexion on the global compensation. that's 6 years ago...(and we wait automs from 9 years..)
nothing is new, it just comes and goes time to times...
I would have thought the cow comment might have possibly given some kind of indication of the general tone intended by my post.

fx23
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by fx23 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:56 am

oops.. sorry im bad in english sarcasm detection :), indeed had doubts..

simpli.cissimus
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by simpli.cissimus » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:47 pm

fisto wrote:the more tracks and FX you add in Live the muddier the sound becomes because of the missing PDC. That's the reason why I do sounddesign and mixing in reaper after layouting in Live.

I used to do soundesign on Live but after I saw what racks can do to your sound (in a bad manner) because of the missin PDC i stopped using racks in Live now also do the layering in Reaper.

Test it out: make a Drum_track --> put an empty effect-rack on it --> one chain dry --> one chain with EQ8 on HQ-mode. Listen to the phasing and enjoy the "great" Audio-engine in Live :mrgreen:

No Thanks!
There is a very simple solution to this known problem!!!

Use a second EQ in HQ-Mode on the dry chain too and turn this EQ8 off.
Now you have the same PDC-correction timing in both chains.

Do this to any chain with HQ-Mode effects or other VST-effects with latency,
and use the same effect you used in the wet chain, on the dry chain, just turned off.
This way PDC alligns the chains in the same way and you have no phasing anymore.

This is not a audio engine problem !
It's a PDC aligning problem that is known...
No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

errorspending
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by errorspending » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:10 am

I don't think you can just insert the plugin and turn it off...it looks like it has to be on, so if the plugin doesn't have a wet/dry mix knob, then you are SOL unfortunately.

Not to mention the extra processing power this uses up when using a lot of racks...

Really hope they get this sorted out. I can deal with the delayed automation, but the chains within a rack really need to be offset by the same amount. That cannot be a difficult thing to program into the engine. They already have the PDC applied to one chain, just make it affect all chains...

Dragonbreath
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by Dragonbreath » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:45 am

So the Op's answer would be PDC (plug-in delay compensation)..

ze2be
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by ze2be » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:25 am

I noticed the rack latency very well today. Using a long chain of lives effects, then trying to dry/wet with an empty parallel chain. Omg 8O

kanuck
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by kanuck » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:57 pm

If I was to choose another daw just for mixing would Reaper be sufficient? I'm looking at either that or Pro Tools.

reticent
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by reticent » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:06 pm

Yeah should I get Logic Pro?

fisto
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by fisto » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:09 pm

kanuck wrote:If I was to choose another daw just for mixing would Reaper be sufficient? I'm looking at either that or Pro Tools.
as a Reaper-Fan I would say Reaper of course :mrgreen: . It can do all that Pro Tools can and has a great engine and very lightweight and highly customizable too.

kanuck
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by kanuck » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:13 pm

fisto wrote:
kanuck wrote:If I was to choose another daw just for mixing would Reaper be sufficient? I'm looking at either that or Pro Tools.
as a Reaper-Fan I would say Reaper of course :mrgreen: . It can do all that Pro Tools can and has a great engine and very lightweight and highly customizable too.
that's what's convincing me as well. i love it's engine.. GUI wise i like pro tools better but i think just practicing a bit on Reaper would get me used to it. Also if you stem all your tracks and remix in Reaper, would the bad PDC in ableton be overcome? my hypothesis is no, it wouldn't. How would you get by this? Thanks.

3phase
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by 3phase » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:40 am

i just got the harrison mixbus..it has an awsome soundqualit< compared with live..

they write something interesting in theire manual

What are the "well known flaws" of other workstations?
It is our opinion that the "gross" defects in many workstations include internal clipping, lacking dither stages in the DSP processing, multiple format conversions, out-of-control gain stages causing plugins to work outside their intended range, routing choices that cause latency/timing errors, Inability to see meters such as compressor gain reduction without opening the plugin dialog, bad ramping of plugin coefficients, and poor user-interface integration.
Of course different workstations will exhibit these problems to different degrees. Our goal was to design a mixer using the "best practices" that we have developed over the course of 30 years. Multiple subtle design decisions, accumulated over a long history, are required to make a truly world-class mixing engine.


when you see how ableton has implememted theire audio engine it must be one of the worst.. in case harrison is wright..

and when my ears are wright..thats just the truth
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

3phase
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Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Post by 3phase » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:54 am

actually its a pitty that working with live is allways a compromise and compromising the quality of your production..
all the cliplaunching and remote abilitys are nice.. and the automation record of all moves.. but this comes with high costs
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

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