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Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:26 am
by kanuck
So just a simple question for those of you who bounce down from ableton and mix or master in Logic, cubase, pro tools, etc.

Why do you guys like to do this? plugins? editing tools? mixing tools?

What do these DAWS have (mixing/mastering wise) that Ableton doesn't?

Thanks.

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:58 am
by TheDriller
I'd be inclined to bounce down and do the final Mix in Reaper, because the plugin-delay-compensation in Live is fucked,
which rules out the use of, say, convolution reverbs on return tracks.

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:01 am
by oddpop
If I'm having trouble with a mix, occasionally I'll export everything to individual tracks (with no Compressions or EQs or anything. just the raw tracks. And start a new Project and mix again from scratch.

- Oh i mean after consolidating any takes / parts. It can breath a fresh idea into a mix that is stagnating.

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:44 am
by fisto
the more tracks and FX you add in Live the muddier the sound becomes because of the missing PDC. That's the reason why I do sounddesign and mixing in reaper after layouting in Live.

I used to do soundesign on Live but after I saw what racks can do to your sound (in a bad manner) because of the missin PDC i stopped using racks in Live now also do the layering in Reaper.

Test it out: make a Drum_track --> put an empty effect-rack on it --> one chain dry --> one chain with EQ8 on HQ-mode. Listen to the phasing and enjoy the "great" Audio-engine in Live :mrgreen:

No Thanks!

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:51 am
by Pasha
oddpop wrote:If I'm having trouble with a mix, occasionally I'll export everything to individual tracks (with no Compressions or EQs or anything. just the raw tracks. And start a new Project and mix again from scratch.

- Oh i mean after consolidating any takes / parts. It can breath a fresh idea into a mix that is stagnating.
I always mix in Live Arrangement view, export stereo files from each project and do the final touch into a new project.
So far I am satisfied. Using only Live Plug-ins.

- Best
- Pasha

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:38 pm
by Palmer Eldritch
fisto wrote: Test it out: make a Drum_track --> put an empty effect-rack on it --> one chain dry --> one chain with EQ8 on HQ-mode. Listen to the phasing and enjoy the "great" Audio-engine in Live :mrgreen:
Yes, the eq 8 in (Hi Quality modus only) adds exactly one sample latency which is not compensated by PDC.
I think this is a bug.
But i did not see a real problem there (but it is good to know about this fact).
If someone needs an effect rack with two ore more (phase coherent) chains and a -high quality- eq 8, for example to build a dry/wet compressor or for mid/side processing, than every chain should have the same count of eq 8s.
For normal mixing (means that you have an eq 8 on a track but not on the other tracks) this one sample should not be noticeable (except in some special cases). If so, then one can compensate this with the track delay.
Also, in my experiences the eq 8 is the only of lives FX where this occurs.
Also most (but not all) vst and audio unit effects are working correctly.
For those (vst/au) that are not working correctly this is not a lack of Lives audio engine, in those cases the plug-ins simply did not communicate the right latency to live.

By the way, I did not talk about pdc and automation. This might be a real problem in some cases.


cheers, palmer

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:01 pm
by agent314
I love how plugin delay compensation is the new cool thing to hate on Live for, when 6 weeks ago nobody so much as mentioned it.

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:19 pm
by jtdj
agent314 wrote:I love how plugin delay compensation is the new cool thing to hate on Live for, when 6 weeks ago nobody so much as mentioned it.
hardly, its been a problem ever since Live became a prominent DAW, which is about 5 years ago, its certainly not a new thing. I think the fact its bein talked about more here nowadays is that ud really expect it to be a feature by now after all these years and considering every other prominent DAW has this feature.

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:42 pm
by xzusa8ky
I dont see any reason to master or mix them in another DAW than in Live. If you know what you are doing Live sounds as good as any other DAW out there. 8)

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:46 pm
by xzusa8ky
fisto wrote:the more tracks and FX you add in Live the muddier the sound becomes because of the missing PDC. That's the reason why I do sounddesign and mixing in reaper after layouting in Live.

I used to do soundesign on Live but after I saw what racks can do to your sound (in a bad manner) because of the missin PDC i stopped using racks in Live now also do the layering in Reaper.

Test it out: make a Drum_track --> put an empty effect-rack on it --> one chain dry --> one chain with EQ8 on HQ-mode. Listen to the phasing and enjoy the "great" Audio-engine in Live :mrgreen:

No Thanks!
Sorry but i dont want to correct you, but the problem isnt Live, you are the problem i guess.................... :D

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:47 pm
by jtdj
xzusa8ky wrote:I dont see any reason to master or mix them in another DAW than in Live. If you know what you are doing Live sounds as good as any other DAW out there. 8)

think about what u just wrote, it doesnt even make sense.

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:04 pm
by Palmer Eldritch
xzusa8ky wrote:I dont see any reason to master or mix them in another DAW than in Live. If you know what you are doing Live sounds as good as any other DAW out there. 8)
Totally agree :D

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:29 pm
by 3phase
i use other daws because the mixes sound better... thats the main reason...

and for mastering its anyway no question.. you dont want have a samplerate conversion on your files ..especially not one in a quick and dirty realtime fashion.

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:39 pm
by xzusa8ky
jtdj wrote:
xzusa8ky wrote:I dont see any reason to master or mix them in another DAW than in Live. If you know what you are doing Live sounds as good as any other DAW out there. 8)

think about what u just wrote, it doesnt even make sense.
Okay! But the answer is the same. Say'd in another way; "Tomorow you will see what you did wrong today"

hope that will help you 8)

Re: Why do you mix/master in a different DAW?

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:04 am
by Khazul
jtdj wrote:
agent314 wrote:I love how plugin delay compensation is the new cool thing to hate on Live for, when 6 weeks ago nobody so much as mentioned it.
hardly, its been a problem ever since Live became a prominent DAW, which is about 5 years ago, its certainly not a new thing. I think the fact its bein talked about more here nowadays is that ud really expect it to be a feature by now after all these years and considering every other prominent DAW has this feature.
The fact thats its being talked about now is because iof recent thread that explain exactly what is going on with test cases and so that everyone who is interested can understand it.

In the past it was just 'something is wrong' for most people without havign a clue what, let alone why and what to do about it.

I hope two positives thing come out of the two main thread thas picked it apart:
1. People understand it and hence know how to deal with it and so make beter sounding mixes.
2. Ableton accept the cat is truly out of the bag and sort it out once rather us having to sort it out everytime its an issue.

Unfortunately there will be a whole heap of people who now understandiing there is a problem will scream about it regardles of whether it has ever really affected them. Most likely the folks who have hit it, understood it, and know how to work around it just quietly get on with there stuff - well excet for one or two folks ;)

I wouldnt mind betting that when someone reads about phasiness with a parellel chain with an HQ EQ8 in it, then suddenly for the first time in their lives they switch EQ8 into HQ mode and repro the problem for themslves and then suddenly think of all the things they cant now do and TBH never have never wanted to do either.

What is it they - you dont miss what you dont know? ;)