Things you wish you had known earlier...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
gurumonkey
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:28 am
Location: Cleveland, Oh

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by gurumonkey » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:27 pm

this has my vote for thread of the year so far.

UncleAge
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:50 pm

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by UncleAge » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:44 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
UncleAge wrote:I'd say that if you are going to do electronic music, regardless of genre, you might:
rubs me the wrong way that this forum is so electronic music oriented.
(trap is set...)
Really? Are you lumping all forms of electronic music into this heap?

Piplodocus
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Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by Piplodocus » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:01 pm

Read "The Manual".

http://www.loudat.com/audio/klf-book-themanual.pdf

Some interesting, thought provoking stuff in there. Even if you don't follow it...

Tone Deft
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Location: SF, CA

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:17 pm

UncleAge wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:
UncleAge wrote:I'd say that if you are going to do electronic music, regardless of genre, you might:
rubs me the wrong way that this forum is so electronic music oriented.
(trap is set...)
Really? Are you lumping all forms of electronic music into this heap?
blanket statements, stereotypes and generalizations make life so much easier.
for simple minded dolts.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, POD500HDX, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

Simbosan
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by Simbosan » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:46 pm

Ableton: The power behind Ukulele Chamber Folk.

S
Ableton 9 Suite - Ozone 5
Room full of guitars!
Akai EWI USB : Loads of Sample Modeling instruments (the best ever!)
M-Audio FastTrack Pro
Turbo Nutter B*stard >>>> WINDOWS <<<< PC
Simbosan on Soundcloud

chaibuka
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:06 pm
Location: spencerport, ny

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by chaibuka » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:14 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
chaibuka wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:I wish I never bothered to try to make dance music. booooooring. stick with my roots.

YMMV.


on the production end of things -
- get good monitors
- don't try to polish turds, start with good recordings, effects don't make things sound good, they just add flavor
- FFS just lay down a few minutes of loops in Arrange view and move on with writing
- take time to setup my tools, including a good drum loop library
etc.
Out of curiosity what would you say your roots are. I'm guessing you might leave out some music you enjoy as to bring some focus.
I'm pretty much always listening to music.

the problem was all these fun soft synths, I spent too much time making fun sounds and layering them, but it's just not me. I started making music with a guitar, more organic music. I've learned to start with some drums then I add guitar or bass guitar and stick with those. I add soft synths later in the process to fill out the sound.

one thing that was a great influence on me is this interview with Vince Clarke. towards the end he mentions that he wrote many of his songs on guitar and then played them on synth. he wrote songs for Depeche Mode, Yazoo and Erasure, some of my big synth band influences in my youth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5RPPKO_iS8
I also don't play keys so getting a midi guitar was a great in helping me tame my synth programming. music theory helped me decode the ebony and ivories but I can't really play keys, I just poke at them.

So it's not so much your roots as in musical influences but putting more of an emphasis on using a musical instrument as your main tool. I took piano lessons with the intention of writing synth based music and realized it was easier to make up music with a good piano patch. Lately I'm spending more time with guitar. I read an interview with Depeche Mode and one the guy's explained how they were old blues fan's and that's how they ended up with John The Revelator, adding layers of synth afterwards. Daryl Hall and John Oates pretty much did the same thing with a lot of their hits. There's a little interview at "The American Songwriter".
http://www.americansongwriter.com/2009/ ... survivors/
If you like watching music biographies I recommend Standing in the Shadows of Motown. It describes how the Funk Brothers were the backbone of so many Motown hits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FODh3bk6Adk
For some reason I like how the Funk Brothers operated out of recording studio as opposed playing live although granted they started out in nightclubs.

Tone Deft
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Location: SF, CA

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:20 pm

you know me better than I do, well put!

good call, and Personal Jesus is nothing more than the most basic 12 bar blues with the jumping pinky, IIRC.

yeah, that's a great biography. so many of those players are unsung heroes, especially in the age of resampling, their groove carries on.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, POD500HDX, JX305, Nova
soundcloud.com/tone-deft

mrdelurk
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Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by mrdelurk » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:41 pm

I disagree with your disagreement =) Music is all about heart, the more you put in, the better. If you aren't feeling it, you can't put the heart in it.
I disagree with your disagreeing with my disagreement. :lol:
100% of the time, the cause *I* don't feel like making music is because something doesn't work right or at all (it broke) again around the computer. The M-Audio card quit, one of the 6 RAID HDs is out of whack, copy protection bent Program X out of shape after installing Program Y, the OS update made the SCSI tape drive unresponsive, some such sh*t happens Every Darned Week. Turning the computers on is almost "let's see what's gone today?" When talking to people I tend to call ours "the generation when computers still sucked".

If one doesn't attack the problem, it will be still there 10 years from now. Hence my habit of charging at it *now!* Of course I don't feel like dealing with it. Hey, American Idol is on TV! Luckily that turns me right back to the rig. :D

UncleAge
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:50 pm

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by UncleAge » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:12 pm

Tone Deft wrote:blanket statements, stereotypes and generalizations make life so much easier.
for simple minded dolts.
Ok. Fair enough.

Simbosan
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by Simbosan » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:42 pm

mrdelurk wrote:
I disagree with your disagreement =) Music is all about heart, the more you put in, the better. If you aren't feeling it, you can't put the heart in it.
I disagree with your disagreeing with my disagreement. :lol:
100% of the time, the cause *I* don't feel like making music is because something doesn't work right or at all (it broke) again around the computer. The M-Audio card quit, one of the 6 RAID HDs is out of whack, copy protection bent Program X out of shape after installing Program Y, the OS update made the SCSI tape drive unresponsive, some such sh*t happens Every Darned Week. Turning the computers on is almost "let's see what's gone today?" When talking to people I tend to call ours "the generation when computers still sucked".

If one doesn't attack the problem, it will be still there 10 years from now. Hence my habit of charging at it *now!* Of course I don't feel like dealing with it. Hey, American Idol is on TV! Luckily that turns me right back to the rig. :D
No you dont! you are agreeing with me disagreeing with your disagreement, what you are talking about is a technical problem and yeah, attack em and don't give up till someone is dead. I have zero problems with my setup to be honest, no technical problems at all. The only problem I have is with other things grabbing my attention and severe performance anxiety (with respect to music!)

S
Ableton 9 Suite - Ozone 5
Room full of guitars!
Akai EWI USB : Loads of Sample Modeling instruments (the best ever!)
M-Audio FastTrack Pro
Turbo Nutter B*stard >>>> WINDOWS <<<< PC
Simbosan on Soundcloud

gurumonkey
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:28 am
Location: Cleveland, Oh

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by gurumonkey » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:31 pm

well, I retract thread of the year comment unless we get back to useful stuff.

nathannn
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Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by nathannn » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:32 pm

Piplodocus wrote:Read "The Manual".

http://www.loudat.com/audio/klf-book-themanual.pdf

Some interesting, thought provoking stuff in there. Even if you don't follow it...
i really could not tell if they where joking or being serious.
they dont go on to explain how to become an artist to hit number 1
they tell you that you should be unemployed but then go on to say book 5 days in a studio.
how do you book 5 days in a studio with no money.

maybe this would have worked in the 80's, but the industry has changed so much since this article was written that. i dont see any relevant pieces of information.
The Push / Novation Launch Pad / Novation Launch Pad Pro / Novation Launch Key
/ Launch Control XL / Machine MkII / Machine Studio / BeatStep / Livid OhmRGB / Livid Code V2 / Apc 40 MKII

no computers or synths

20 Copies of Ableton Live Lite.

jtdj
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:37 am
Contact:

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by jtdj » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:50 pm

nathannn wrote:
Piplodocus wrote:Read "The Manual".

http://www.loudat.com/audio/klf-book-themanual.pdf

Some interesting, thought provoking stuff in there. Even if you don't follow it...
i really could not tell if they where joking or being serious.
they dont go on to explain how to become an artist to hit number 1
they tell you that you should be unemployed but then go on to say book 5 days in a studio.
how do you book 5 days in a studio with no money.

maybe this would have worked in the 80's, but the industry has changed so much since this article was written that. i dont see any relevant pieces of information.

really?

Rabalder
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:03 am
Location: Norway

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by Rabalder » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:05 pm

gurumonkey wrote:well, I retract thread of the year comment unless we get back to useful stuff.
+1

chaibuka
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:06 pm
Location: spencerport, ny

Re: Things you wish you had known earlier...

Post by chaibuka » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:31 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
chaibuka wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:I wish I never bothered to try to make dance music. booooooring. stick with my roots.

YMMV.


on the production end of things -
- get good monitors
- don't try to polish turds, start with good recordings, effects don't make things sound good, they just add flavor
- FFS just lay down a few minutes of loops in Arrange view and move on with writing
- take time to setup my tools, including a good drum loop library
etc.
Out of curiosity what would you say your roots are. I'm guessing you might leave out some music you enjoy as to bring some focus.
I'm pretty much always listening to music.

the problem was all these fun soft synths, I spent too much time making fun sounds and layering them, but it's just not me. I started making music with a guitar, more organic music. I've learned to start with some drums then I add guitar or bass guitar and stick with those. I add soft synths later in the process to fill out the sound.

one thing that was a great influence on me is this interview with Vince Clarke. towards the end he mentions that he wrote many of his songs on guitar and then played them on synth. he wrote songs for Depeche Mode, Yazoo and Erasure, some of my big synth band influences in my youth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5RPPKO_iS8
I also don't play keys so getting a midi guitar was a great in helping me tame my synth programming. music theory helped me decode the ebony and ivories but I can't really play keys, I just poke at them.
Erasure | Shouting Out the Future

http://www.emusician.com/interviews/feature/erasure/

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