Warp for MIDI

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Jeff Brown
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Warp for MIDI

Post by Jeff Brown » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:14 pm

I use my monomes solely as interfaces to a (very strange) synth, basically like a Hammond organ. I do a lot of improvising without a click track. Once, I recorded a lot of such improv into Ableton Live. If it had been audio, it would have been easy to go through and place a warp marker at each downbeat, so that I could then chop up and remix the different pieces in a rhythmically logical way. But because it was MIDI data, I couldn't do that. (You can stretch groups of MIDI notes in Ableton, but not in a way that keeps them contiguous with the notes they are adjacent to in time, which makes the remixing I just described extraordinarily difficult.)

Is there a DAW that would let me warp MIDI the way Ableton lets me warp audio?

Short Scope Boy
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Re: Warp for MIDI

Post by Short Scope Boy » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:29 pm

Jeff Brown wrote:I use my monomes solely as interfaces to a (very strange) synth, basically like a Hammond organ. I do a lot of improvising without a click track. Once, I recorded a lot of such improv into Ableton Live. If it had been audio, it would have been easy to go through and place a warp marker at each downbeat, so that I could then chop up and remix the different pieces in a rhythmically logical way. But because it was MIDI data, I couldn't do that. (You can stretch groups of MIDI notes in Ableton, but not in a way that keeps them contiguous with the notes they are adjacent to in time, which makes the remixing I just described extraordinarily difficult.)

Is there a DAW that would let me warp MIDI the way Ableton lets me warp audio?
I think I understand what your saying; if I do then here goes:

Midi data does not need to be warped, assuming it is quantised, then it will play at any tempo, in time.
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cotdagoo
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Re: Warp for MIDI

Post by cotdagoo » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:42 pm

why not just bounce the midi track to audio and then warp it from there?

Jeff Brown
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Re: Warp for MIDI

Post by Jeff Brown » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:59 pm

The reason recording and then warping the audio is undesirable is that once I've got a set of melodies, quantized appropriately, I do lots of melodic transformations -- change one or two degrees of the scale, transpose a few notes so that melodies that would clash can harmonize instead, etc. I need the performance data, not the audio result, in order to do that.

Suppose I play some chords in sequence. They're not quite metronomic, and they're all in the same MIDI clip. I want to just plunk down some markers that say, "Here's the 1, here's the 2, here's the 3 ..." That way I can then play the MIDI file alongside a perfectly metronomic drum file, and they'll sync up.

In Ableton, to achieve such an effect, what I've got to do is carefully select all the notes that are supposed to fall in the first measure, and stretch them to be in the first measure. Once I do, those notes overlap the notes in the second chord, so I have to select that second group of notes, and stretch it so that it starts at the end of the first measure, and ends at the end of the second. I did this once, but it's such a pain in the ass that I'll never do it again until I find an easier way to warp MIDI.

brownjonas
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Re: Warp for MIDI

Post by brownjonas » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:31 am

if i understand your intention correctly, you can frame your clips with "orig.bpm" in the clip view to get the effect you want.

3phase
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Re: Warp for MIDI

Post by 3phase » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:38 am

Jeff Brown wrote:I use my monomes solely as interfaces to a (very strange) synth, basically like a Hammond organ. I do a lot of improvising without a click track. Once, I recorded a lot of such improv into Ableton Live. If it had been audio, it would have been easy to go through and place a warp marker at each downbeat, so that I could then chop up and remix the different pieces in a rhythmically logical way. But because it was MIDI data, I couldn't do that. (You can stretch groups of MIDI notes in Ableton, but not in a way that keeps them contiguous with the notes they are adjacent to in time, which makes the remixing I just described extraordinarily difficult.)

Is there a DAW that would let me warp MIDI the way Ableton lets me warp audio?

I guess Ableton live should be this daw.. i think they did a big mistake when they implemented midi into live that they havent followed theire audio clip conventions just 1:1 with midi clips.. that was stupid somehow to try to reinvent the wheel there.. and that by starting in the stoneage of midi...
So as consequence Abletons midi is years behind in relation to sequencers of the late 1980´s and 90´s..
if the would have followed theiere own conventions it would be actually ahead in many areas..and simultanious handling of midi and audio clips with master clips would be easy to implement... and with such master clips i would call it a workstation and not a workaroundelton station..
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3phase
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Re: Warp for MIDI

Post by 3phase » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:46 am

Jeff Brown wrote:The reason recording and then warping the audio is undesirable is that once I've got a set of melodies, quantized appropriately, I do lots of melodic transformations -- change one or two degrees of the scale, transpose a few notes so that melodies that would clash can harmonize instead, etc. I need the performance data, not the audio result, in order to do that.

i dont see how that would clash with warping along the timeline.. when applied corectly you just scale time.. and can requantize afterwards.. or just leave it alone.
In L8 they implemeted the time scaling..its there finaly.. but in a total different convention..
should have been ther from the start in the audio clip fashion.

so you can stretch parts of the midi sequence with easy and undoable warp operations..

however its most desireable to be able to do all timing related clip operation on more than one clip simultaniously ... especially when you record audio and midi stream of performing musican simlutaniousl and need toc edit multiple tracks in one go..

and dont tell me that i can do that in arrange..when i would want to work in a arrange view all the time i would use another daw
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Semuta
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Re: Warp for MIDI

Post by Semuta » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:18 am

Wow guys! I had never figured out the orig bpm thing! I have struggled with freestyling midi into Ableton since the beginning, and had no idea this existed. I agree that using the standard warping conventions would be preferable, but nonetheless, this will be a huge help!

Thanks for this awesome random piece of knowledge!

S
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Rabbitdragon3
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Re: Warp for MIDI

Post by Rabbitdragon3 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:53 pm

Jeff Brown wrote:
Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:14 pm
(You can stretch groups of MIDI notes in Ableton, but not in a way that keeps them contiguous with the notes they are adjacent to in time, which makes the remixing I just described extraordinarily difficult.)

Is there a DAW that would let me warp MIDI the way Ableton lets me warp audio?
I found an answer!
Ok, so, as it turns out, you can warp groups of midi notes the same way you warp audio, and it's pretty simple
First, make sure all the material you want to warp together is in the same clip through slicing and consolidating, you can have extra material in the same clip, but just make sure all the good stuff is in the same clip, same as audio

Next, select all the notes you want to warp together
Then, Locate the warp marker placed above the last note selected, and when you drag, it will warp

This image shows the marker i'm talking about:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sTSv0q ... sp=sharing

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