ipad controller apps for ableton.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
tw1nstates
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by tw1nstates » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:50 am

Ahh the old get em all answer, you guys should get into modular synths, that's the common refrain on muffs :)

So it sounds like Touchable and Konkrete might be my best option.

P'raps with 2 ipads :)
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tw1nstates
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by tw1nstates » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:51 am

I am not too bothered about using the ipad as much other than a controler.

But then making music sat on my bad rather than at the computer might also be fun...

Hmmm...
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UnCL0NED
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by UnCL0NED » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:38 am

...
Since I've also bought an iPad recently and 've been looking into these controller apps last weekend, I was wondering what the difference is between using the morphing-part of Kapture and this awesome looking Konkrete Performer. I'd like to use the iPad as a controller to create new interesting sounds in a different way from my "standard" knob-twisting. It seems Konkrete Performer is a little more random for controlling and I also noticed Konkrete Performer requires a lot of innitial setting up... Is this true?
Appreciate the feedback, Thanks.
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8O
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by 8O » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:20 pm

UnCL0NED wrote:...
Since I've also bought an iPad recently and 've been looking into these controller apps last weekend, I was wondering what the difference is between using the morphing-part of Kapture and this awesome looking Konkrete Performer. I'd like to use the iPad as a controller to create new interesting sounds in a different way from my "standard" knob-twisting. It seems Konkrete Performer is a little more random for controlling and I also noticed Konkrete Performer requires a lot of innitial setting up... Is this true?
Appreciate the feedback, Thanks.
Get both :-)

In terms of set-up and configuration, the main difference is that Konkreet Performer isn't Ableton Live specific. It's more like a hardware controller in that respect where you can choose what mappings you want to make to control what software devices, be it in Ableton Live, direct to Reaktor, or Cubase or Logic or routed out again to your hardware synths.

In terms of concept, Performer is also coming from a different direction: you move, twist, stretch a beautiful shape via multi-touch and gestures and every change will issue a control message out to your laptop. It can be more random and less predictable, but you quickly and intuitively get a feel for how your actions change the sound.

I'm currently working here in the (konkreet) lab making Performer->hardware synth mappings and a large part of the creative process is how you make this mapping - it can be very wide ranging and can arrive at completely new sounds and progressions through repeatable chaos :) or it can be mapped more carefully to tweak your existing sounds.

That's why Performer is great!

Kapture is great too and we're friends with the Liine guys so go ahead and buy both!
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LoopStationZebra
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:52 pm

+1

The morphing feature in KapturePad works AFTER you've tweaked macros or device settings and then take a morph 'snapshot'. You've got an XY square, and you can take from 2 to 4 snapshots, then move the XY around in that square. It's an entirely different process and interaction than Konkrete Performer.

1. Fiddle with macros or device settings.
2. Take a snapshot.
3. Fiddle again.
4. Take another snapshot.
5. Do this up to 4 times
6. Then move the dot around the XY pad to morph between snapshots.

With Konkrete Performer, you control ALL of the macros in a rack instantly; without the need to take snapshots. Just highlight a rack, move the graphics around, and the macros move with you. BUT, you can also take snapshots as well. If something sounds good while using Performer, just take a snapshot using the buttons on the left side of the screen. You've got a lot of snapshot slots. Pressing on a snapshot button instantly recalls those macro positions. One feature that would be great is a slow glide between snapshots; instead of the instant reaction you get now. :P But...

That's what is awesome about using both. I'll often be twiddling away in Performer, take a snapshot, but then switch over to Kapture and also take a snapshot there in the XY (or track) area. I'll then pop back over to Performer and repeat that process 3 more times in the Xy pad of Kapture. In this way I CAN actually glide between Performer snapshots. :P

Awesome. AWESOME. :x
Last edited by LoopStationZebra on Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:06 pm

I'll add that with Peformer, you don't need a rack per se. For instance, I might have an instance of CamelSpace on a track, and I've mapped 8 parameters to the device map area. I just select the CamelSpace device bar, and Performer automatically starts controlling all 8 maps.

Even if you don't have anything mapped, or aren't using a device in a rack, Performer will start manipulating 8 of SOMETHING in a plugin, lol. This is because the OSCulator file is sending out a buttload of CCs at any one time. When the Performer script doesn't find a macro or MIDI mapping, I believe it defaults to the OSCulator file and starts controlling whatever the first CCs manage to hit. I THINK it works that way. 80 can provide clarification I'm sure.

The setup for all of these things is fairly painless.
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8O
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by 8O » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:17 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:Even if you don't have anything mapped, or aren't using a device in a rack, Performer will start manipulating 8 of SOMETHING in a plugin, lol. This is because the OSCulator file is sending out a buttload of CCs at any one time. When the Performer script doesn't find a macro or MIDI mapping, I believe it defaults to the OSCulator file and starts controlling whatever the first CCs manage to hit. I THINK it works that way. 80 can provide clarification I'm sure.

The setup for all of these things is fairly painless.
:D yeah, that's pretty much it: the standard OSCulator preset that we supply has about 65 MIDI CCs mapped, so chances are that Performer will immediately start controlling/wreaking havoc :wink:. Additionally, for Ableton Live we supply the User Remote Surface script which will work the same as any other MIDI controller's instant mappings.

Cheers LSZ! :)

To the OP: I should also point out that OSCulator's a great little tool for OSC->MIDI mapping, but if you're on a Windows laptop or just want to use the basic mappings on OS X, you can also just download the free PureData patch translator from our site too.
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Hedroom
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by Hedroom » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:03 pm

8O wrote:
LoopStationZebra wrote:Oh, and let's not forget Konkrete Performer for amazing new ways to use a controller as an instrument. :P

Here's what I'm rockin right now in my live sets:

Lay down some Stick, iPad instrument, percussion, and Alchemy soft synth loops.
(touchAble pads and keys pages used for percussion and Alchemy input)

Use touchAble to fire off FX dummy clips to manipulate devices on each loop track, or start and stop other clips throughout a performance.

Use touchAble for levels, fiddling with individual device or macro parameters.

Use KapturePad prior to starting the set to capture default levels in a snapshot, then again whenever I'm feeling a good vibe. :)

Use Griid for inputting of piano roll notes and velocity fiddling for Alchemy.

Use Midi Touch to select Alchemy presets, or to select any of my macros for manipulation with Performer.

Use Performer to manipulate macros in mondo bizarro exciting ways.

Use KapturePad to load snapshots and morph macros.

Basically, but not necessarily, in that order.

:x
:D I think I can speak for all of us Konkreet Labs, Touchable, Liine folks and ask for a video of this live set-up in action...! :D
YES! We would definitely ALL love to see that setup!

Yep, I would agree with the things posted in this thread. Here you have several different controllers, all offering different strengths . Most combinations work very well together.

It seems natural for people to think that anything like this is a huge competition and that it's necessary to take sides ("X" is much better than "Y" etc). But it really doesn't have to be one of the other. I'd love to see videos of more multi control-app setups. Here is the best one I've seen yet, which features Konkreet Performer, Griid Pro, TouchOSC/LiveControl AND Kapture Pad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX8EaUE-hAg Anyone seen any others?

Actually, iPad owners are in a very lucky position... How many people could afford to buy an APC40 one weekend, then try a Livid Code the next, a Launchpad the week after and a Lemur after that? Now you can try several apps for just a few Euros each. You might find one better for Saturday nights in a club and another for Wednesday afternoons at home.

And since we're all jumping in the same thread, I'd add that I've met all of the people from TouchAble, Konkreet Labs, Hexler, LiveControl and they are all great people. Each of these teams of people putting a lot of effort and passion into building cool controllers for our electronic music community. They ALL deserve your support so that they can keep on developing and building cool stuff!

Hedroom
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by Hedroom » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:14 pm

8O wrote:
UnCL0NED wrote:...
Since I've also bought an iPad recently and 've been looking into these controller apps last weekend, I was wondering what the difference is between using the morphing-part of Kapture and this awesome looking Konkrete Performer. I'd like to use the iPad as a controller to create new interesting sounds in a different way from my "standard" knob-twisting. It seems Konkrete Performer is a little more random for controlling and I also noticed Konkrete Performer requires a lot of innitial setting up... Is this true?
Appreciate the feedback, Thanks.
Get both :-)

In terms of set-up and configuration, the main difference is that Konkreet Performer isn't Ableton Live specific. It's more like a hardware controller in that respect where you can choose what mappings you want to make to control what software devices, be it in Ableton Live, direct to Reaktor, or Cubase or Logic or routed out again to your hardware synths.

In terms of concept, Performer is also coming from a different direction: you move, twist, stretch a beautiful shape via multi-touch and gestures and every change will issue a control message out to your laptop. It can be more random and less predictable, but you quickly and intuitively get a feel for how your actions change the sound.

I'm currently working here in the (konkreet) lab making Performer->hardware synth mappings and a large part of the creative process is how you make this mapping - it can be very wide ranging and can arrive at completely new sounds and progressions through repeatable chaos :) or it can be mapped more carefully to tweak your existing sounds.

That's why Performer is great!

Kapture is great too and we're friends with the Liine guys so go ahead and buy both!
Performer is one of the most beautiful control devices I've ever seen and the fact that you can control multiple points in intuitive ways with a simple gesture is just incredible. Personally, I'm a huge fan!

Kapture is something quite different. When Ableton Live is in a state which sounds good and you want to recall later, you can simply hit "Kapture" and store the whole thing. This will store an unlimited number of parameters in a single snapshot! You can then recall this again at any time. Perhaps save different snapshots for different songs (which may require very different mixer/plugin settings) or save some "safety" snapshots which mean you can go nuts and do some serious sound mangling and then jump right back to something danceable/sensible/filthy/weird/fluffy/cuddly at a single tap.

Kapture is about states and recalling them or morphing between them. You start with the end sound/result you want and the controller automatically self-assigns the control messages necessary to achieve those states or smoothly move between them. Performer can be thought of as the other way round. You start by building a powerful control system and THEN you perform with it and see what kind of sounds you can create. They BOTH mean that you can come up with very new unexpected sounds you hadn't anticipated and control many parameters at once in a musical way.

Oh, and the sun is shining - that makes things EVEN BETTER! :D

rabouille
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by rabouille » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:44 pm

Hedroom wrote: Actually, iPad owners are in a very lucky position... How many people could afford to buy an APC40 one weekend, then try a Livid Code the next, a Launchpad the week after and a Lemur after that? Now you can try several apps for just a few Euros each. You might find one better for Saturday nights in a club and another for Wednesday afternoons at home.

And since we're all jumping in the same thread, I'd add that I've met all of the people from TouchAble, Konkreet Labs, Hexler, LiveControl and they are all great people. Each of these teams of people putting a lot of effort and passion into building cool controllers for our electronic music community. They ALL deserve your support so that they can keep on developing and building cool stuff!
Agreed!
Who could say few 1 year ago that we'll have great Ableton dedicated multitouch controllers and alternative midi apps for few bucks? for the price of 1 audio cable you can use amazing tool, and for the price of the cheapest midi controller you can own all of them!

TouchAble, Osculator, Griid, Kapture pad, konkrete performer, they all work nicely together, ...multitask or multi ipads.

And we have at least 1 big advantage over the hardware controller: We follow carefully our products, share ideas with our community and make update!

Enjoy :D

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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:20 pm

23kon wrote:I bought an iPad at the weekend purely for TouchOSC so that I can design my own controller layouts per song/set.

Although i'll probably check out other Apps like touch-Able and Live Control.

All ipads are wifi.

Don't bother with an iPad2 unless you really need the two cameras.
Save yourself £70 and just get the original ipad and spend the money you save on some nice apps.
Bear in mind that Apple will be bringing out the iPad 3 in september which will be a MAJOR JUMP rather than just the addition of a slightly faster processor and cameras.
SOURCES ?

LoopStationZebra
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:10 pm

The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
23kon wrote:I bought an iPad at the weekend purely for TouchOSC so that I can design my own controller layouts per song/set.

Although i'll probably check out other Apps like touch-Able and Live Control.

All ipads are wifi.

Don't bother with an iPad2 unless you really need the two cameras.
Save yourself £70 and just get the original ipad and spend the money you save on some nice apps.
Bear in mind that Apple will be bringing out the iPad 3 in september which will be a MAJOR JUMP rather than just the addition of a slightly faster processor and cameras.
SOURCES ?

Pure rumour. It's highly doubtful that Apple will release an iPad3 that comes anywhere close to doubling the processor power or gives us retina display so shortly after the iPad2 release. They are nearly always on 1 year major jump cycles. My guess? A smaller iPad.
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23kon
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by 23kon » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:13 pm

Sorry for spreading a rumour that might not be true :P
I've read about the September release on design forums.
It surprised me too for there to be a release so soon after the iPad2.
Although the iPad2 is hardly an evolution, more of a slight improvement.
Perhaps it might be a smaller iPad? Wouldn't that just be a iPod Touch though?!

It is amazing what these apps can do. Even though they've been an absolute PAIN to setup!
The documentation is terrible for these awesome apps, they assume you know what you are doing, i've had to go here there and everywhere for help which i've pieced together and got apps working.

I've got TouchOSC working and have created my first template which I can midi assign and control parameters in Live from the iPad.
My only trouble is that I dont know how to get AbletonLive to talk back to the iPad. Is this possible?
Do I have to tweak midi-in settings in PureData? Or maybe it's the Midi Preferences in Ableton Live that i've got wrong? anyone help?

I've managed to get LiveControl working tonight too after hours of struggling!
I've got a launchpad so I cant actually see myself using this app much as I find it restrictive that you can only tweak one instruments at a time.

MY IDEAL APP would be LiveControl but with the ability of creating an extra page(s) which I could design a template for to add knobs/cliders/buttons to control a whole load of instruments on the one page for that particular song or set.
Then when I need to trigger a different scene or clips i just jump back to the launcher screen.

Is this possible with LiveControl as it stands? Am I missing a trick?

LoopStationZebra
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:16 pm

You want to pick up Midi Touch. It's all OSC and totally customizable.
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Re: ipad controller apps for ableton.

Post by UnCL0NED » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:29 am

Thanks for all the great replies. I'm sold.
What I like most about this thread is to see how passionate you guys are about your products. Keep up the good work!!!

Now I'll only have to convince the wife I've got to spend more cash on iPad apps :roll:
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