VERY frustrated DJ/Producer.

[BoddAH]

Sure, if you're waiting to be "discovered" to make a living with music, good luck. (or should I say good riddance)

You sound bitter. Also “getting discovered” doesn’t necessarily mean not giving a fuck and just hoping some big record company might stumble on a random link to your work in a forum.

You sure can help it by just doing what you love, making it somewhat public and hoping word to mouth and the quality of your productions speak for themselves.

You definitely should start making music as a hobby and not throw yourself into the arena with nothing but the pressure to make it big because you won’t be able to pay your rent otherwise.

If you don’t make it (let’s be honest here, it’s not very likely) fine, it was just your free time hobby anyway and you truly enjoyed it. If you do you can always ditch your day job to focus on producing.

Being obsessed with becoming famous, sending your work to dozens of record companies in the hope of making it big and corrupting your work to follow the latest trends is a recipe for failure and frustration.

[bassik]

My 2p for the cause...

If you are in it for the money, "networking" is the word for you!!!

If you are in it for the cause (artistic...), "networking" is the word for you!!!

If you are in it for expressing your feeling, thoughts and your urge of telling the word how crap it is...forget networking and concentrate on your tunes...

My experience (16 years producing music with old style controllers (guitar) and new style controllers (Ableton)) is that if you really want your music to be appreciated by large audience, to be released on cool labels and to get lots of gigs is to go out of your studio, go to the coolest parties, try to meet the coolest people in town and talk to them about how amazing your tunes and your live set/dj set are.
If you are good in this, you might become famous!!!

As someone else said, there are loads of talented people around who quit in frustration as they haven't had anything else more than a "bravo".

To be honest, in this over crowded music production world, with all the software who makes simpler and simpler to produce music, you need to know the right people with the right connections and a good marketing sense.

My view is: Keep on fighting, produce your tunes and try to be smart when advertising your talent

I am not like that...I don't give a shit but sometimes good connections with people have given me opportunities I have taken but not follow up for personal reasons (didn't want to ruin relationship with my wife).

hope this gives you some hope and strenght

[razorblade]

you need to know the right people with the right connections and a good marketing sense.

It's not about who you know, it's about who you blow...

[zee verkawound]

^
Why do you say that? Please explain!

1) Music as a "living", BAD IDEA!!! In fact, a STUPID idea that we have ALL had, and one that some continue to torture themselves with. There is not an industry outside the entertainment business that is more unreliable and inconsistent. That is, if you want to keep it "REAL"

Firstly, criticizing the idea is nuts. Ideas, and trying to bring them into existence are what keeps people going. Just because someone else never made it does not mean I can't. We may not exactly end up where we originally set out to go, but having the courage to step out and begin a journey is often the point. On top of this, being able to grow with your progress, learn and re clarify your original goal is central to bringing ideas to life. Things tend to become more focused as time goes by, mainly because you understand things better. I find the most rigid and stubborn people to be the most unhappy and hard done by people I know.

In terms of quantifying the industry, its purely subjective and situational. There is a shit load of other industries that are unreliable, inconsistent and ruled by old boy networks.

2) The better you are "skill wise" musically, and the more creatively unique you are as an artist, are both directly proportionate to the lack of success you will have musically. Why? Because mad skills and ingenious creativity DO NOT sell anything except tickets to the local music store's latest clinic. I have known MANY solo virtuosos that have alternate gigs outside music. They simply can't make it on their "artist's income" and they have ZERO benefits as virtuosos.

Its kind of a silly comment. Think about it from a craftsman's perspective. Just because you got mad skills in some area does not mean you are exempt from having to do the shit work. The above example is more of a case of being conceited than anything. "Not being paid what I think I am worth" is something I hear every now and then from people who think a little to highly of themselves.

3) Music is like any other business in that you have to meet public demands if you hope to make a consistent living. Guess what? The public's attention span is about as fickle and reliable as a midwestern weatherman. That's why most SOLID professional musicians play COVERS which is about as artistically genuine as bozo singing the national anthem at the next Dogers game.

You are right about public demands but not about the fickleness. If you work for yourself and you do not understand that your LIFE is a business then you will fail sooner or later. by your own fault. And again... you are not thinking about the journeyman musicians who work for other people playing the same chords and scales, day after day. Its the basics, fundamentals, core things. Its usually oversized ego's that claim they are above playing yet another refried bean of a song.

5) Most importantly: Music is art and those who appreciate it truly, appreciate it as such. It's when music is looked upon as mere "entertainment" that it's degraded to a professional context. Do you REALLY want to be professional musician, producer or DJ? If you do, it takes a lot of discipline to play material that you REALLY don;t want to have to play. It's a job, right? Why not be what we are ALL deep down inside, just a simple artist with his own vision like everyone else.

This is the biggest load of bollocks... musicians who think their talent is almost demi-god. Holy fcuk. Which planet are you from? In most developed countries the majority of people have to work for a living. For many people its about choices, or lack of them. Flipping burgers or playing cover tunes... mmm? I think I will flip burgers because I will remain pure, sanctified and undefiled by not lowering myself by using my "gift" like a mere mortal to pay some bills.

I think I am a similar age to you, I am guessing. I am 45. I have been involved in music full time since turning 41. I mainly teach music, but I have been doing the occasional demo and little bits of consulting. I am working on a small live thing which I will unveil when its ready. I will put out an album one day. I tinker in my studio which is a work in progress. I support a family and pay a mortgage. I am sure glad I never listened to the advice I was given that I would never make a living with music. No, its not a bed of roses financially. I am working with my wife to build her business as well... but jubus man, most couples I know need both parties to work. Yes I want to make more money and create a bigger/better following/reputation to trade in... who doesn't. But as it stands... I am happy I stepped out and made it happen.

Every reply that you have made here is based on your inability to comprehend what I have stated. This is nothing new to you as you have always been quick to respond but slow to comprehend. Let me ask you a question. when is the last time your personal annual income depended on making professional music?

It seems to me that you are a dreamer that has little taste for REALITY. I don;t think you have EVER been a professional musician, have you?

[gjm]

Every reply that you have made here is based on your inability to comprehend what I have stated. This is nothing new to you as you have always been quick to respond but slow to comprehend. Let me ask you a question. when is the last time your personal annual income depended on making professional music?

It seems to me that you are a dreamer that has little taste for REALITY. I don;t think you have EVER been a professional musician, have you?

Lol. I understand fully your position. I only respond to things that I have knowledge or experience in, otherwise I am asking questions. Your view of professional music is not my view. I am professionally involved in music as an educator, composer, and basic recording engineer. This is how I make my annual income and have done coming up 5 years. I have done my time as a session player, being in other people's bands, going on their tours, contributing to their albums. I have had other careers as well due to family life and travel. However, music is a commodity and I trade in it. In terms of dreaming, I said to my wife 5 years ago that I wanted a change, that I wanted lifestyle over the business life we had at the time. I have 3 sons whom I wanted to be involved with as they are becoming men. Guess what, I have made most of that come true. I am working on the rest daily. I decided what I valued, took my experiences from the past and am happy with my reality. This was made all the more valuable when recently hearing of the passing of leedsquiteman.

As far as other musical endeavors go, I am backing myself.

[Bizon]

you need to know the right people with the right connections and a good marketing sense.

It's not about who you know, it's about who you blow...

ha, so true.

A lot of good dick suckers out there...

[zee verkawound]

Every reply that you have made here is based on your inability to comprehend what I have stated. This is nothing new to you as you have always been quick to respond but slow to comprehend. Let me ask you a question. when is the last time your personal annual income depended on making professional music?

It seems to me that you are a dreamer that has little taste for REALITY. I don;t think you have EVER been a professional musician, have you?

Lol. I understand fully your position. I only respond to things that I have knowledge or experience in, otherwise I am asking questions. Your view of professional music is not my view. I am professionally involved in music as an educator, composer, and basic recording engineer. This is how I make my annual income and have done coming up 5 years. I have done my time as a session player, being in other people's bands, going on their tours, contributing to their albums. I have had other careers as well due to family life and travel. However, music is a commodity and I trade in it. In terms of dreaming, I said to my wife 5 years ago that I wanted a change, that I wanted lifestyle over the business life we had at the time. I have 3 sons whom I wanted to be involved with as they are becoming men. Guess what, I have made most of that come true. I am working on the rest daily. I decided what I valued, took my experiences from the past and am happy with my reality. This was made all the more valuable when recently hearing of the passing of leedsquiteman.

As far as other musical endeavors go, I am backing myself.

Listen to yourself. "I never reply unless I've been there and done that" In other words "I know it all" and if I don't, I won't post. OK.

Then why may I ask did you make such ridiculous assertions with respect to what I wrote? Why did you go out of your way to assert that my advice was bad? That was asinine and served just one purpose, to start trouble. Not one single paragraph that you wrote in response to my initial post in this thread makes one bit of sense. It almost seems like you went out of your way to disagree with me. I don;t believe anyone believes that they are the all seeing eye in the musical pie that knows it all, but I am starting to wonder. There is more to life and aspiration in general than smoke in mirrors and that's precisely what the flowery talk achieves.

Not one single word I wrote in that post was untrue. Your interpretations are ridiculously off base. My interest was not to coach the man, but rather lend truth in perspective for him just to consider. If you can't and DO NOT understand what I wrote (which you still do not)then why not just be cool?

My advice is this: STOP equating YOUR PERSONAL CREATION of MUSIC with a profession. Unless you are EXTREMELY lucky, you will ONLY be degrading it by doing so. The more you aim for the money, the less of you will be represented in your music. For your music to become a routine "job" is the worst thing that could happen to your personal artistry. That's a fact.

[gjm]

Listen to yourself. "I never reply unless I've been there and done that" In other words "I know it all" and if I don't, I won't post. OK.

You are right about the first part. If I have been there and done that and have either met success or failure, then I have a point of view. Some people might like my P.O.V and other might hate it. However, the fact remains that 'I have been there and done that', whatever it is. To post about something without ANY experience is lying.

Then why may I ask did you make such ridiculous assertions with respect to what I wrote?

Ridiculous is the way you interpreted it. I offered an alternative view. I am allowed to do that. Do you think you are above getting replies to your posts? Or should we all just bow down when big Z arrives.

Why did you go out of your way to assert that my advice was bad? That was asinine and served just one purpose, to start trouble.

Your advice is not bad, it needs to be tempered with an alternative view. I think you are wrong in some regards. I used to hold views similar to you, but I literally changed my view and created a different reality. It is also not asinine. Your just threatened by words on a page. I challenged your world view and you took offense. Thats YOUR reaction and not mine.

Not one single paragraph that you wrote in response to my initial post in this thread makes one bit of sense.

Yes it does. Thats why I wrote it. If you have further questions about my P.O.V then just ask and I will be happy to talk.

It almost seems like you went out of your way to disagree with me.

Yes. Its a forum where we share ideas. Get on board.

Not one single word I wrote in that post was untrue. Your interpretations are ridiculously off base. My interest was not to coach the man, but rather lend truth in perspective for him just to consider. If you can't and DO NOT understand what I wrote (which you still do not)then why not just be cool?

Same.

My advice is this: STOP equating YOUR PERSONAL CREATION of MUSIC with a profession. Unless you are EXTREMELY lucky, you will ONLY be degrading it by doing so. The more you aim for the money, the less of you will be represented in your music. For your music to become a routine "job" is the worst thing that could happen to your personal artistry. That's a fact.

Bullshit. You are making excuses for your own failures. I degrade nothing. In fact, the ONLY result is enrichment. The best thing that can happen to anyone is to learn to work inside boxes. Its only then that you can dream clearly.

[The Carpet Cleaner]

27 is not too old.
For your music, be smart. Be creative, be unique, but also find a way to still connect with other people. If your music is too weird, it will not meet anybody. Find the right balance between your style and a genre that people like.

[MPGK]

Sure, if you're waiting to be "discovered" to make a living with music, good luck. (or should I say good riddance)

You sound bitter. Also “getting discovered” doesn’t necessarily mean not giving a fuck and just hoping some big record company might stumble on a random link to your work in a forum.

You sure can help it by just doing what you love, making it somewhat public and hoping word to mouth and the quality of your productions speak for themselves.

You definitely should start making music as a hobby and not throw yourself into the arena with nothing but the pressure to make it big because you won’t be able to pay your rent otherwise.

If you don’t make it (let’s be honest here, it’s not very likely) fine, it was just your free time hobby anyway and you truly enjoyed it. If you do you can always ditch your day job to focus on producing.

Being obsessed with becoming famous, sending your work to dozens of record companies in the hope of making it big and corrupting your work to follow the latest trends is a recipe for failure and frustration.

No, I'm not bitter, why should I be?
I do what I love and get paid for it. Teaching, arranging, mixing, producing, performing. Diversity helps.
But I didn't get "discovered". People who get discovered usually failed to discover themselves in the first place.

[djanciano]

Don't be frustrated! One day you will hear something, and that will you break you tru.

Who i'am I!? Started as a dj when i was 15 years!(proffesional, weekend pay)now i'am 57 years and still playing music ones a month with Djing! Just finished one year on the University of Amsterdam "Electronic Music Production" because i like to produce music with Ableton. I hope that someday i release a mix (Progressive House)that will come in the charts, then i stop djing. So with 27 years there is still a long way to go

[zee verkawound]

Bullshit. You are making excuses for your own failures. I degrade nothing. In fact, the ONLY result is enrichment. The best thing that can happen to anyone is to learn to work inside boxes. Its only then that you can dream clearly.

More absolute unsubstantiated BS from YOU. You are not even aware of what I mean and here you are answering your own question that I guess you made up along the way. I would honestly have an intelligent conversation with you if it were possible. Good luck to you, although I am certain you won't need it as you seem to be adept at making up reality as you go.