Ableton Forum

zee verkawound wrote:This is an excellent thread with a TON of great advice! Of course there are also a bunch of total crap advice posts too, but that's normal on a "forum". This is coming from a guy that has been a very active musician for over 30 years now. Just some basic truth and it's VERY hard to swallow, but here ya go:

1) Music as a "living", BAD IDEA!!! In fact, a STUPID idea that we have ALL had, and one that some continue to torture themselves with. There is not an industry outside the entertainment business that is more unreliable and inconsistent. That is, if you want to keep it "REAL"

2) The better you are "skill wise" musically, and the more creatively unique you are as an artist, are both directly proportionate to the lack of success you will have musically. Why? Because mad skills and ingenious creativity DO NOT sell anything except tickets to the local music store's latest clinic. I have known MANY solo virtuosos that have alternate gigs outside music. They simply can't make it on their "artist's income" and they have ZERO benefits as virtuosos.

3) Music is like any other business in that you have to meet public demands if you hope to make a consistent living. Guess what? The public's attention span is about as fickle and reliable as a midwestern weatherman. That's why most SOLID professional musicians play COVERS which is about as artistically genuine as bozo singing the national anthem at the next Dogers game.

4) You are certainly not too old. Take a look at Squarepusher or anyone of a thousand different noteworthy artists. MANY are in their forties. 27 is VERY young.

5) Most importantly: Music is art and those who appreciate it truly, appreciate it as such. It's when music is looked upon as mere "entertainment" that it's degraded to a professional context. Do you REALLY want to be professional musician, producer or DJ? If you do, it takes a lot of discipline to play material that you REALLY don;t want to have to play. It's a job, right? Why not be what we are ALL deep down inside, just a simple artist with his own vision like everyone else.

I have read so much truth in this thread, but the bottom line is to just be yourself artistically, and then do what you have to do professionally. The two RARELY go together.

How incredibly inspirational, thank you for this post. Take not OP, this is golden advice right here (alongside many other posts in this thread)

...Throw your own parties - it's one of the best ways (if not THE best way) to build your brand.
...With all of the DAWs and sound technology available today, If you haven't gotten anywhere in seven years, then maybe you should try something else.

Bottom Line:

Just do it for yourself.

If the only reason your producing/making music is to "come up". Odds are you'll only disappoint yourself.

Many famous artists had never thought they would make it big. They just did it because they loved it.

If you go about it this way, you'll be happy either way and wont be disappointed.


With that being said Age/ Looks, dont matter. Shit... im still gonna be making tracks when im an old man!

Still waiting to here these tracks

BoddAH wrote:

How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live.

- Henry David Thoreau

I'll just leave this here.

Try telling this to J. K. Rowling.

zee verkawound wrote:Of course there are also a bunch of total crap advice posts too

You mean like all of this...

zee verkawound wrote:1) Music as a "living", BAD IDEA!!! In fact, a STUPID idea that we have ALL had, and one that some continue to torture themselves with. There is not an industry outside the entertainment business that is more unreliable and inconsistent. That is, if you want to keep it "REAL"

2) The better you are "skill wise" musically, and the more creatively unique you are as an artist, are both directly proportionate to the lack of success you will have musically. Why? Because mad skills and ingenious creativity DO NOT sell anything except tickets to the local music store's latest clinic. I have known MANY solo virtuosos that have alternate gigs outside music. They simply can't make it on their "artist's income" and they have ZERO benefits as virtuosos.

3) Music is like any other business in that you have to meet public demands if you hope to make a consistent living. Guess what? The public's attention span is about as fickle and reliable as a midwestern weatherman. That's why most SOLID professional musicians play COVERS which is about as artistically genuine as bozo singing the national anthem at the next Dogers game.

5) Most importantly: Music is art and those who appreciate it truly, appreciate it as such. It's when music is looked upon as mere "entertainment" that it's degraded to a professional context. Do you REALLY want to be professional musician, producer or DJ? If you do, it takes a lot of discipline to play material that you REALLY don;t want to have to play. It's a job, right? Why not be what we are ALL deep down inside, just a simple artist with his own vision like everyone else.

^
Why do you say that? Please explain!

gjm wrote:

zee verkawound wrote:Of course there are also a bunch of total crap advice posts too

You mean like all of this...

zee verkawound wrote:1) Music as a "living", BAD IDEA!!! [...]

I agree, that's the complete opposite of inspirational to me, sounds more like a frustrated rant.
Music as a living is hard, but it can still be a good idea. Of course you have to compromise at some points, but I'm willing to earn money teaching and produce the occasional jingle for some stupid car commercial if it means I can pursue music full-time. Heck, it beats sitting in an office all day.

Keep smiling.. Its a nice day!

Rabalder wrote:^
Why do you say that? Please explain!

zee verkawound wrote:1) Music as a "living", BAD IDEA!!! In fact, a STUPID idea that we have ALL had, and one that some continue to torture themselves with. There is not an industry outside the entertainment business that is more unreliable and inconsistent. That is, if you want to keep it "REAL"

Firstly, criticizing the idea is nuts. Ideas, and trying to bring them into existence are what keeps people going. Just because someone else never made it does not mean I can't. We may not exactly end up where we originally set out to go, but having the courage to step out and begin a journey is often the point. On top of this, being able to grow with your progress, learn and re clarify your original goal is central to bringing ideas to life. Things tend to become more focused as time goes by, mainly because you understand things better. I find the most rigid and stubborn people to be the most unhappy and hard done by people I know.

In terms of quantifying the industry, its purely subjective and situational. There is a shit load of other industries that are unreliable, inconsistent and ruled by old boy networks.

zee verkawound wrote:2) The better you are "skill wise" musically, and the more creatively unique you are as an artist, are both directly proportionate to the lack of success you will have musically. Why? Because mad skills and ingenious creativity DO NOT sell anything except tickets to the local music store's latest clinic. I have known MANY solo virtuosos that have alternate gigs outside music. They simply can't make it on their "artist's income" and they have ZERO benefits as virtuosos.

Its kind of a silly comment. Think about it from a craftsman's perspective. Just because you got mad skills in some area does not mean you are exempt from having to do the shit work. The above example is more of a case of being conceited than anything. "Not being paid what I think I am worth" is something I hear every now and then from people who think a little to highly of themselves.

zee verkawound wrote:3) Music is like any other business in that you have to meet public demands if you hope to make a consistent living. Guess what? The public's attention span is about as fickle and reliable as a midwestern weatherman. That's why most SOLID professional musicians play COVERS which is about as artistically genuine as bozo singing the national anthem at the next Dogers game.

You are right about public demands but not about the fickleness. If you work for yourself and you do not understand that your LIFE is a business then you will fail sooner or later. by your own fault. And again... you are not thinking about the journeyman musicians who work for other people playing the same chords and scales, day after day. Its the basics, fundamentals, core things. Its usually oversized ego's that claim they are above playing yet another refried bean of a song.

zee verkawound wrote:5) Most importantly: Music is art and those who appreciate it truly, appreciate it as such. It's when music is looked upon as mere "entertainment" that it's degraded to a professional context. Do you REALLY want to be professional musician, producer or DJ? If you do, it takes a lot of discipline to play material that you REALLY don;t want to have to play. It's a job, right? Why not be what we are ALL deep down inside, just a simple artist with his own vision like everyone else.

This is the biggest load of bollocks... musicians who think their talent is almost demi-god. Holy fcuk. Which planet are you from? In most developed countries the majority of people have to work for a living. For many people its about choices, or lack of them. Flipping burgers or playing cover tunes... mmm? I think I will flip burgers because I will remain pure, sanctified and undefiled by not lowering myself by using my "gift" like a mere mortal to pay some bills.

I think I am a similar age to you, I am guessing. I am 45. I have been involved in music full time since turning 41. I mainly teach music, but I have been doing the occasional demo and little bits of consulting. I am working on a small live thing which I will unveil when its ready. I will put out an album one day. I tinker in my studio which is a work in progress. I support a family and pay a mortgage. I am sure glad I never listened to the advice I was given that I would never make a living with music. No, its not a bed of roses financially. I am working with my wife to build her business as well... but jubus man, most couples I know need both parties to work. Yes I want to make more money and create a bigger/better following/reputation to trade in... who doesn't. But as it stands... I am happy I stepped out and made it happen.

When you put it like that I totally agree..
But for me, personally, it was a revelation to understand that I probably would never make a living as an artist. This fact made me free of expectations.
I stopped thinking about the future and started focusing on the present, which led to a small revolution in my music. And still does.

Its all about the now! Who knows what tomorrow brings..

Rabalder wrote:But for me, personally, it was a revelation to understand that I probably would never make a living as an artist. This fact made me free of expectations.

Totally agree with that.

Everything has been said already.
Making music should be a hobby. People don’t watch movies because they want to become movie critics or play video games to become pro gamers; it happens but you sure as hell shouldn’t count on it.
Making music should be its own reward. It pretty much has to anyway because if you don’t really enjoy making music it’s obvious in your work and the production could never be successful in the first place.
Getting discovered is just icing on the cake if you love what you do and has much to do with luck.

Brother make music because you love to do music, not because of the fame...

the less you try to get fame or try that other people like your shit , the better your music will be.


music is to enjoy doing it. not to get rich, or famous...

what a prostitution of music is that...

BoddAH wrote:Making music should be a hobby. People don’t watch movies because they want to become movie critics or play video games to become pro gamers; it happens but you sure as hell shouldn’t count on it.

You're mixing things up here. Making music can be compared to making movies or making video games, not to watching or playing them. I think making music can be a hobby as can making movies or video games be.

Getting discovered is just icing on the cake if you love what you do and has much to do with luck.

Sure, if you're waiting to be "discovered" to make a living with music, good luck. (or should I say good riddance)