ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
iHutch
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by iHutch » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:11 pm

kb420 wrote:
iHutch wrote:I wouldn't even know where to start with something like that. Was there even any drums in there? When i start something i always start with the drums and use that as the backbone of the track, if there was no drums i'd be screwed! How does benga use all those different sounds, get them to sound right together and get them to form a rhythm?

I can't tell if you are joking or not. Are you saying you really don't hear any drums in the Benga track? He definitely has a kick, several different snares, and hand claps. Sometimes sarcasm doesn't come across when posting in a forum. Were you being serious or not? :|
Sorry, what i meant was the track doesn't have a defined drum track, something you can hear and say "yep, thats the drums", although there are drums in there it sounds more like a collection of different sounds that make up the rhythm, different sounds coming in and out but all working together. I'm confusing myself now, i think Benga might be a little out of my league at the minute!

iHutch
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by iHutch » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:13 pm

agent314 wrote:Add pads to make a backdrop/atmosphere for the action

Add leads/melody lines to give the listener's ears something to do and a story to follow

Add a bar or two of auxiliary percussion throughout

Add samples/clips (clips from movies/TV, Charlie Sheen soundbytes, random clips of sounds/people talking, whatever)

Use delays/reverbs to add some color/depth

Add panning to give it a broader sound

Add STUFF.

The reason the tracks are lacking are that there's only drums and wobble going on - there's nothing else there to keep the ear interested. You need more layers, more elements, more STUFF to fill out the sound.

Right now you've got a blank canvas with a couple of shapes on it, but for the most part it's still almost totally blank. You need to fill it with stuff to make it a complete piece
Yeah i know what you're saying mate but I don't know what to add that will work and not sound either cluttered or 1 sound over powering another.

kb420
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by kb420 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:16 pm

iHutch wrote:Sorry, what i meant was the track doesn't have a defined drum track, something you can hear and say "yep, thats the drums", although there are drums in there it sounds more like a collection of different sounds that make up the rhythm, different sounds coming in and out but all working together. I'm confusing myself now, i think Benga might be a little out of my league at the minute!

Well, I'm done, because you sure as hell confused me. I definitely hear a "defined drum track" that has "a collection of different sounds that make up the rhythm". (Isn't that the definition a drum track???? smh.... Benga out of your league??? Can't you learn from studying people who are clearly better than yourself????)


Anyway, I hope everything works out for you. :?
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

iHutch
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by iHutch » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:24 pm

compare benga's track to this one. This one has a more defined drum track (imo) than Benga's. Thats what I meant bud, I do appreciate your help though.

pulsoc
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by pulsoc » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:26 pm

Start by taking a dubstep track you like and copying it. Measure by measure, element by element. Do a drum track, bass, whatever else. You won't get it perfect so don't worry about that - but try to get it close. You will start to hear the different pieces of the track and how they fit together. This will open doors of undertsanding to you. Understanding will lead to knowledge will lead to skill.

You have an uphill journey ahead of you. There is no magic bullet.

But I think you have your wobbles down.

kb420
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by kb420 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:27 pm

iHutch wrote:compare benga's track to this one. This one has a more defined drum track (imo) than Benga's. Thats what I meant bud, I do appreciate your help though.

If you say so.

I totally disagree, but it is what it is.
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

iHutch
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by iHutch » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:30 pm

pulsoc wrote: But I think you have your wobbles down.
lol, yep. Cheers dude.

iHutch
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by iHutch » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:34 pm

kb420 wrote:
iHutch wrote:Sorry, what i meant was the track doesn't have a defined drum track, something you can hear and say "yep, thats the drums", although there are drums in there it sounds more like a collection of different sounds that make up the rhythm, different sounds coming in and out but all working together. I'm confusing myself now, i think Benga might be a little out of my league at the minute!

Well, I'm done, because you sure as hell confused me. I definitely hear a "defined drum track" that has "a collection of different sounds that make up the rhythm". (Isn't that the definition a drum track???? smh.... Benga out of your league??? Can't you learn from studying people who are clearly better than yourself????)


Anyway, I hope everything works out for you. :?
Not sure if your getting arsey with me now but yes, I can study and learn from others but if I don't know what he's doing and how he's doing it then its kinda difficult. Was the "clearly" really needed? The thread title says I'm a n00b to all this, Benga has had some really successful releases, so yes, "clearly" he is better than me.

macmurphy
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by macmurphy » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:50 pm

folks like Benga have been obsessively been making music daily for years (in his pants, i once heard. he'd just roll out of bed, get on the computer and stay there all day :lol: )
so what he can achieve is going to be very technical and sophisticated. it all comes in time. practice practice practice. get obsessed - by the sounds of it you have tons of enthusiasm
which is the first step to obsession. a good thing.

also -
agent314 wrote:Add pads to make a backdrop/atmosphere for the action

Add leads/melody lines to give the listener's ears something to do and a story to follow

Add a bar or two of auxiliary percussion throughout

Add samples/clips (clips from movies/TV, Charlie Sheen soundbytes, random clips of sounds/people talking, whatever)

Use delays/reverbs to add some color/depth

Add panning to give it a broader sound

Add STUFF.

The reason the tracks are lacking are that there's only drums and wobble going on - there's nothing else there to keep the ear interested. You need more layers, more elements, more STUFF to fill out the sound.

Right now you've got a blank canvas with a couple of shapes on it, but for the most part it's still almost totally blank. You need to fill it with stuff to make it a complete piece
great advice. through shitloads of stuff on there. experiment. some stuff will work, some won't.

then when it's loaded with detail you can edit things down if it's sounding too dense or over the top.

get stuck in :wink:

wascal
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by wascal » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:15 pm

iHutch wrote:I'm not sure mate, sound wise it is sounds "lacking" I really can't think of another way to describe it. I've uploaded a few songs on soundcloud here, listening will probably give you a better idea of what I mean.
Find 2 tracks you really like but that don't work in the mix, sample both, make something that fits between them then replace the sounds with your own ;) always a good challenge
TTKK / NOODLES / iANDALE! / TIGERBEAT6 / HOT & HEAVY etc
http://www.soundcloud.com/wascal

JuanSOLO
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by JuanSOLO » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:13 pm

I agree with a lot of what has already been said.

First I would say, go ahead an move on to new material. If your just getting started, keep moving forward. If your struggling finishing a track, quit fucking with it and move on.

After building the basics of your tracks, breakdown parts of it, dismantle them, swap drum hits with sounds for parts, build up to the next drop. Use some one shot reverb or delay on some snare hits. Try some washed out reverb on your basslines to create transitions. Dont be afraid to let silence, or minimal sound carry the song into the next part. DYNAMICS! Study some old school DUB. A lot of whats been posted already will help you break the predictability of your tracks. Not trying to be rude, but there's a saying, you can polish a turd, but it's still a turd. I wouldn't say your tracks are lacking, the are the sounds of a humble beginning. Take your previous experience and start fresh. Also you might wanna try starting with a melody, or atmosphere, and then add drums. Try a different approach and see what happens.


Practice Practice Practice.

rosti
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by rosti » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:11 pm

^ +1.
Needs more than just wobbles + drums. IMO dubstep don't need so much melodic leads, but its good to have some spice in your meal: Breaks, drops, weird spacesounds etc..
Also try focusing on the mix. How the tracks sound together? Now the wobble bass seems to eat all the energy from other tracks. Make room for the kick and layer those snares. Dubstep needs big snares :D

my 25 cents

(whooa. there was million posts written while i was writing mine :D)

3phase
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Re: ableton n00b interested in dubstep but something is missing

Post by 3phase » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:46 pm

agent314 wrote:Add pads to make a backdrop/atmosphere for the action

Add leads/melody lines to give the listener's ears something to do and a story to follow

Add a bar or two of auxiliary percussion throughout

Add samples/clips (clips from movies/TV, Charlie Sheen soundbytes, random clips of sounds/people talking, whatever)

Use delays/reverbs to add some color/depth

Add panning to give it a broader sound

Add STUFF.

The reason the tracks are lacking are that there's only drums and wobble going on - there's nothing else there to keep the ear interested. You need more layers, more elements, more STUFF to fill out the sound.

Right now you've got a blank canvas with a couple of shapes on it, but for the most part it's still almost totally blank. You need to fill it with stuff to make it a complete piece
:lol:
and how you call the outcome of that? minimal goa?
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

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