Has anyone made interesting uses of Live with Logic (esp 7?)

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
LOFA
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Has anyone made interesting uses of Live with Logic (esp 7?)

Post by LOFA » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:00 am

I purchased the full version of Live 4 and Logic pro 7 this fall.
Since then I have been flying through Live like an ADD child in the candy store- I just can't get enough of it.
Meanwhile, my copy of Logic is being totally neglected.
Is there anyone here who uses Logic with Live in any remarkable way?
Is there anyone here who feels that there are any identifiable holes that in Live that Logic fills?
Logic is a little tricky to get into. I have spent days reading up on it, and I still can't even get my microkontrol or fw1884 to play nice with it.
It would be really helpful to me if anyone had any insights or comments. I am on the verge of pawning Logic.

zebastian21
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Re: Has anyone made interesting uses of Live with Logic (esp 7?)

Post by zebastian21 » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:45 pm

hey there!....for a long time i got addicted to live, i would never touch logic, but then i started to see live's flaws when it comes to mixing, midi editing,key comands. i decided to start using live for puting basics ideas for a track, then i render everything to my desktop, then i open logic and drag all those files to the arrenge window. logic allows me to do so much more and wayyy faster than live. logic's plug ins are with no doubt 100 times better than the ones in live. when it comes to mixing, logic allows me to use a mackie control and lots of key comands,multiple sceen views, different windows for editing , great automation functions....
i love live, but at the end everything is done in logic pro 7 :wink:
stop talking.....start working...:)
Macbook pro. Logic pro/Live. Access Virus Ti. Genelec 8040. my bread and butter :)

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:35 pm

Live isn't that great for MID editing, or surgical song arranging. It's great for quick an dirty song arranging, and live MIDI. Live also uses only one processor on a dual machine, Logic gets full use out of duals, and uses altivec for another speed boost. Logic also has key commands for everything , Live is severally missing in this respect, it's a shame really considering that it would help out a lot for Live use, and basic editing.

On my dual Gig G4 Live can only run 7 instances of Absynth before chocking, Logic can run 16.

On the other hand I'm not too fond of Logic for live use, so I tend to use Live as a loop arrangement tool, and compose the loops in Logic.

Ideally, and it looks like it just might turn out to happen, I'll be using both on separate powerbooks for live use.

Basically until Logic becomes a Live clone, or Live gets altivec, and dual CPU support + better MIDI editing and key commands, I'm going to be using both. :roll:

Zakari Luk
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Post by Zakari Luk » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:01 pm

i would definently keep logic. the plugins make it worth it. plus, logic is really not as complex as people make it out to be, it just offers alot of options, although it does seem ass backwards at times.

just spend a good couple weeks with ultrabeat, sculpture, es2, and the space designer. learn the program a piece at a time, it will be worth it in the long run. ive used logic for 4 years now and im still learning new things with it.

also, you might get more help from a third pary book, i dont know if they have one for 7.0 yet, but the apple training guide for 6.0 might help, unfortunantley the manuals for logic are mostly rubbish imho. you can check out the forum at sonikmatter as well, that is if you can deal with the attitude in there, as its not "cool" like this forum.

spg
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Post by spg » Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:54 pm

Defo keep LOGIC!

LIVE is grand for jamming, quick creation, loop syncing, bla bla...

LOGIC is the app that you will end up relying on in the long term :wink:

I use LIVE for jamming out loops, making strange edits, using the warpers etc etc.

I then save it all into a folder and then run a new LOGIC song and work from my LIVE folder of sounds, then adding any additional midi patterns I want afterwards, cause Live's midi note entering function is g*sh....

Live is cool for creating idea's and saving it all into a bundle, then use Logic to actually make it into something solid without having the hassle of Live's f*ck ups.... :roll:

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:21 pm

Thank you very much for your feedback.
When I origionally purchased Logic it was for it's plug-ins. Unfortunately I have not got past the very initial setup (perhaps I will cry myself a river over at the logic forums- I purchased two, 3rd party Logic 6 tutorials and neither address my problems. I've asked people if I am dumb, or losing my mind, but that doesn't seem to be the issue this time)
The thing that upsets me is that Apple charges a ridiculous fee for support for anything past intialization which in my opinion is where I am still at, despite 3 months of effort (this is embarassing, but in my defense I have spent the bulk of my time trying to get Live to do everything for me instead.)
I have lost patience with Apple in general, especially due to their drawn out marketing with their g4 powerbooks. I have been without a Laptop for too long because I've been waiting for something powerful enough to run Live but compatable enough for a Logic Dongle.
While I appreciate Machinesworking's idea of using of two laptops (mac,pc:logic,live,) I would hate to have to carry around my Dual g5 Desktop to record my band's drums with Logic after I put together a portable PC workhorse for live.
I guess my source of frustration lies more with Apple than with the highly regarded software that they have acquired from Emagic.
Thank you all for your imput. For now I think I will keep it. At least long enough to try and get it to work. Once I finally learn it's language I would really like to try out Sculpture. No props to Apple, though. It amazes me that they still don't have a reliable dual processor laptop to utilize Logic.

zebastian21
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Post by zebastian21 » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:57 pm

hey lofa.....you should check this out www.vtc.com look for audio tutorials, then choose logic 6 . I've heard they are developing the new tutorials for logic 7 . you can check out the demos ....this is the best way to learn logic.......THX GEORGE!! :lol:
stop talking.....start working...:)
Macbook pro. Logic pro/Live. Access Virus Ti. Genelec 8040. my bread and butter :)

Zakari Luk
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Post by Zakari Luk » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:04 pm

lofa, what are you trying to do exactly that you are unable to do?

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 am

Most importantly I would like to get my 8 microphones in their own track using my tascam 1884. I know I have it installed correctly as I had professional help, but I still cant seem to machette my way through logic's environment system.
So, I backed off and tried to give myself the easier goal (as the books suggest) of trying to establish myself with the midi via my microkontrol.
Unfortunately I cant get it to the point where I hear any output.
All of the things I am having trouble with are things I feel I could learn real fast if I was watching someone do. Unfortunately, despite several efforts to organize all of the new variables/terms/idiosynchroties I am still having a hard time reading between the lines, or visualizing what people are suggesting. Perhaps it is all of the many windows. I am embarassed by how much time I have invested running around in circles with it. At an hourly rate I could have purchased some serious an analog equipment. Of course that is not what I am trying to do here. I am trying real hard to catch up with the world of Digital audio (now that I finally have some time and cash.) Fortunately I have read a lot about what I can expect later on in Logic, but I really am next to fed up right now.

Thanks again for all the feedback, and if anyone has any more suggestions or thoughts I would greatly appreciate them!

Zakari Luk
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Post by Zakari Luk » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:59 am

lofa, first of all are you sure that you got everything setup properly? like the audio interface selected as your driver preferences.

if so, its pretty simple after that. you can also use the setup assistant make your autoload song, or make one manually.

in the environment window:

*create 8 audio objects from the "new" menu at the upper left, click and drag on the bottom right of each each one to expand them to the size of channel strips. then align them to make them look organized (options-clean up- align objects) make sure they are all selected.

*for each individual one, go to the parameter box on the left. where it says channel, click and set each on as an "input" from 1-8 (depending on how many inputs you got).

*create another audio object, and in the parameter box channel setting, make it an "output" channel for output 1 & 2.

*set the outputs on all the input objects to out 1-2 on the channel strip.

*to record audio, make as many audio objects as you want for tracks, and in the parameters channel setting set each one for "track" 1 - 24 (or how many you want) and set the inputs and output on the channel strip.

*to use the software instruments like ultrabeat or sculpture, create a few audio objects and set them to be "instrument" in the parameter box channel, once those are created you just click the proper place on the channel strip and the list of instruments will show up.

*to rewire live into logic you do the same as the others, but make sure that its a rewire object. every thing is basically an "audio object" you just need to specify what kind you want it to be in the parameter box, its simple really.

*make sure that the "icon" is checked as well, this way you will be able to see each one in the arrange window so you can edit automation.

*in the arrange window, go to track in the upper left and select create, create as many tracks as you need, and for each one click and hold on the name and a menu will open, thats where you specify which "audio object" from the environment that it will represent.

*after you done all this, save the song as "autoload" in the library-application support-logic-song templates folder, this way it will load each time as your default song.

hope this helps you to get started with it, it really is a great program, and you got to learn it piece by piece, ive used it for 4 years and im always learning something new with it. once you learn it more you might appreciate what it does and come to the conclusion that its a great counterpart for live. it will take time though, but it is worth it, just wait until you get to the programing of its synths, you will know what im talking about.

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:16 am

Just start Logic's set up assistant with your midi and audio plugged in to the computer. It will walk you through choosing your sound card, midi device, and number of audio tracks etc. When your done you will have an Arrange window with a bunch of audio tracks already in it. Shift select the amount of tracks you want to record, and set the record path on your hard drive and go.

Purchase the video tutorials mentioned earlier, and visit osxaudio.com and sonikmatter for further questions! 8)

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:28 am

Thanks for the time. I will give all of your advice a series of go-throughs before I make any hasty decisions.
I will not be surprised if the help I needed to run Logic was recieved via this Abelton.
Regardless of wether or not I get it to work my illusions of Apple are done away with.
I am glad to see artists/etc taking the steps in the right direction like Machinesworking (delegating projects to powerful PC laptops, rather than waiting for the next Apple surprise.)
For the money I could get back selling my setup and running on a PC...
Alright, less talk more work.
Thank you all for your time.

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:24 am

LOFA wrote: For the money I could get back selling my setup and running on a PC...
no offense LOFA, but at least get Logic up and running, record a bit into it, see if you don't think the midi is better than Live's, then make the decision that Apple are somehow to blame or not. If you cannot even get Logic to make noise at all, then you really need to spend some time understanding the software a bit.
I suggested the video tutorials, because for some reason you seem to be having problems with the manuals, and it sounds like you're missing some basic skills with pro audio software set ups, so a video tutorial would be good. Apple can't help you with this kind of stuff, and honestly, you would be on hold for far too much of your day if you were to be able to call phone support for free. Did you try looking through the free online support at Apple's site? It's pretty much geared towards beginners like you.
If you lived in the northwest I would say hire me for an hour or two, I've done it before, and usually it's something silly, and easily overlooked that's holding somebody back. You might want to think about doing that. Pop up over at OSXAudio and ask about Logic help in your neck of the woods.
You have a dual 2 Gig G5 for chrissakes! Twice as fast at least as my computer, be happy! I don't currently own a PC, but if Apple can't put a G5 in a powerbook next year, I"ll get one. The least amount of OS and license's, and what not the better IMO, but I'm not a zealot about it, if I have to I will get a PC.
Good luck, I'm pretty happy right now with my paltry dual Gig desktop, and my slow 800mhz. powerbook and Logic + Live. It's a a great time to be a an electronic musician for sure! :)

braj
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Post by braj » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:10 am

Tonight I just instantly 'got' Logic. I dunno what it was, but LE7 now makes perfect sense to me. It's like you have to put your brain in a certain mode. Strange... Of course I could have read the manual, but that would be work.

Unfortunately, I'm on a slow Mac (667 Ti) but at least I can freeze tracks. Live4 doesn't run so well on the machine, so that stays in Windows.

mcconaghy
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Post by mcconaghy » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:24 pm

LOFA, head on over to Yahoogroups and join Logic Cafe and the Logic User Group - tons of tips in there. Logic Cafe is fairly new, and attitudes haven't developed yet, so there will be ample opportunity to ask for help without the Elite coming down on you like a ton of bricks shouting "RTFM, RTFM." Not that the Logic manual helps...

Follow Zebastian's instructions for setting up the FW1884, Logic supports it in both native and HUI mode.

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